Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#161

Post by lamontcg » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

programmarchy wrote: post #92

A very interesting observation [1] was made by Dr John Campbell who noticed a difference between vaccine efficacy in Israel vs UK. In Israel, the doses were spaced 2-3 weeks apart, and the protection against transmissibility has dropped off significantly more than in the UK, where doses were spaced further apart, sometimes over 10 weeks between the first and second dose. His hypothesis was that a longer duration betw…

Simpler explanation on the Israel data:

> You’ve probably seen reports from Israel on low vaccine effectiveness in this wave. Is it because of Delta? Waning immunity? We think the reason is mostly that we got the denominator wrong.

https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059124700700677

> This is what we got wrong. This “wave” started from cities with high vaccination rate and couldn’t “find” unvaccined adults at risk. The denominator we need to use until mid-July is >95% vaccination rate and not the country’s average.

https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059139435343876

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#162

Post by mint2 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:38 PM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #139

estebank wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> B. If one doesn’t take the vaccine, one’s chances of dying or being disabled for years or permanently are much higher. >But for a young person with no co-morbidities, that chance is still basically 0%. According to table "COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:" at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-se... , the mortality rate for everyone under 40 years of age is 0.2%. That "is basically 0", but mean…

From your cdc link, it looks like less than 10k people have died in the under 40 age bracket. Am I looking at the right data? Also, are you aware you can be exposed to the virus and not be infected?

And since being vaccinated would have saved most of those 10k people and like a small handful have died from all of the vaccines across all age groups, and a small handful is orders of magnitude smaller than 10k. It does seem like a vaccine mandate even for under 40s is the smart thing to do.

That doesn’t even get into the benefit of preventing long Covid and being able to open the economy faster with fewer restrictions

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#163

Post by mint2 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

incrudible wrote: post #97

mint2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that: A. Pfizer isn’t the only vaccine option. B. If one doesn’t take the vaccine, one’s chances of dying or being disabled for years or permanently are much higher. C. If one doesn’t take the vaccine there is a significant chance they give the virus to someone else, killing them. I think it’s the best option out of all non-great options to mandate vaccines in order to participate in crowded settings. It’s a ma…

Pfizer and Moderna have similar risk profiles, everything else seems to be much worse. Argument B is highly subjective and I would argue that "the data isn't there" for the young and healthy parts of the population. Despite being "safe and effective" by the standards of medicine, a Sars-COV2 vaccination also carries a non-zero risk of disability and death. Argument C doesn't really cut it, because "someone else" shou…

Elsewhere in the replies to my comment there are plenty of responses to your first paragraph, please browse them if you’re interested in why those criticisms of ABC are not good and miss some crucial aspects of it.

But the analogy to cars is flawed. A more equitable one would be to obey traffic laws and not do things like speed or lane jump. I.e driving in a responsible manner that is considerate of others safety. It doesn’t reduce traffic accidents to zero, it minimizes them. Your analogy would be like continuing the lockdown for vaccinated people because even vaccinated people can in rare cases spread the disease. That is as wacky as forbidden people to drive. Having people vaccinated to partake in large gatherings is like requiring people to obey speed limits or face a penalty. Sure some people will get around it.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#164

Post by pan69 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

mrhands69 wrote: post #112

incrudible wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pfizer and Moderna have similar risk profiles, everything else seems to be much worse. Argument B is highly subjective and I would argue that "the data isn't there" for the young and healthy parts of the population. Despite being "safe and effective" by the standards of medicine, a Sars-COV2 vaccination also carries a non-zero risk of disability and death. Argument C doesn't really cut it, because "someone else" shou…

Show people mortality rates for various things around the world. I wonder how the ones banging the "civil responsibility" drum would react.

The way I understand it is; you can't compare to mortality rates for other various things because these other various are spread out over a 12 month period. When there is a spike in Covid cases they all happen at the same time, which floods the health system and people die needlessly (e.g. not enough ventilators). People can get very ill (and die) from the flu as well but they don't tend to do this all at the same time (i.e. no spike) but get sick spread out over a longer period of time.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#165

Post by artificialLimbs » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:06 PM UTC

jmcgough wrote: post #111

_-david-_ wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The measles vaccine has been around for decades. There are plenty of long term studies on the efficacy and saftey. How many long term studies have there been on any of the covid vaccines?

Has there ever been serious long-term side effects caused by vaccines? Yes, a tiny number of people have had serious short-term complications from them, but I'll take five deaths over 3,000 deaths a day. mRNA vaccines have been well studied - from a scientific standpoint it's hard to imagine how it even could cause problems.

You will take 5 deaths, meaning you will choose for others whether to risk that. Do you not realize the implication here?

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#166

Post by briefcomment » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:17 PM UTC

mint2 wrote: post #162

briefcomment wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your cdc link, it looks like less than 10k people have died in the under 40 age bracket. Am I looking at the right data? Also, are you aware you can be exposed to the virus and not be infected?

And since being vaccinated would have saved most of those 10k people and like a small handful have died from all of the vaccines across all age groups, and a small handful is orders of magnitude smaller than 10k. It does seem like a vaccine mandate even for under 40s is the smart thing to do. That doesn’t even get into the benefit of preventing long Covid and being able to open the economy faster with fewer restricti…

And since we all know cholesterol and saturated fats are killers, we should ban butter and institute that everyone should have at least a tablespoon each of canola and sunflower oil a day. Except the science has now reversed to the point that polyunsaturated fats are being implicated as likely causes of obesity and metabolic disease.

You statement sounds far more confident than what the science would currently permit.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#167

Post by threatofrain » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

newacct583 wrote: post #26

Panther34543 wrote: post #11

In summary: A.) Pfizer is raking in over $33 billion from vaccine sales. B.) Due to the PREP Act, they are completely immune from lawsuits arising from any form of complications arising from those vaccines. C.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may lose your job[0]. D.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may be barred from normal everyday social activities[1][2]. I can't be the only one who is incredibly uncomfort…

You're genuinely more uncomfortable with the idea of unfair liability protection than you are with the persistence of a pandemic that has already taken millions of lives? I mean, I think it's possible to agree that maybe the liability waiver is too broad (or that Pfizer's net revenue is too high) and... still view this as the most important single medicine released over the past few decades. I mean, come on. Literall…

Also, liability protection doesn't mean that citizens cannot receive compensation for treatment-related harms. The federal government has opted to take on the liability, and has created a compensation fund which will pay your legal feels if you win, and is easier to win than a civil suit.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#168

Post by Overton-Window » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

estebank wrote: post #116

briefcomment wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> B. If one doesn’t take the vaccine, one’s chances of dying or being disabled for years or permanently are much higher. But for a young person with no co-morbidities, that chance is still basically 0%. > C. If one doesn’t take the vaccine there is a significant chance they give the virus to someone else, killing them. Even if others have taken the vaccine themselves? Either that particular risk is negligible if the…

>> B. If one doesn’t take the vaccine, one’s chances of dying or being disabled for years or permanently are much higher. >But for a young person with no co-morbidities, that chance is still basically 0%. According to table "COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:" at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-se... , the mortality rate for everyone under 40 years of age is 0.2%. That "is basically 0", but mean…

> You're forgetting the number 1 law of large numbers. Things that have a very low chance of probability happen all the time at scale.

Severe reactions to experimental vaccines for example?

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#169

Post by pupppet » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

artificialLimbs wrote: post #165

jmcgough wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there ever been serious long-term side effects caused by vaccines? Yes, a tiny number of people have had serious short-term complications from them, but I'll take five deaths over 3,000 deaths a day. mRNA vaccines have been well studied - from a scientific standpoint it's hard to imagine how it even could cause problems.

You will take 5 deaths, meaning you will choose for others whether to risk that. Do you not realize the implication here?

No worse than you choosing that the people around you may die from your not vaccinating.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#170

Post by mrtesthah » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

kook_throwaway wrote: post #87

beachy wrote: post #17

Anti-vaxxers are setting the stage for enormous profits for big pharma by creating the conditions for breeding new variants that will require more big pharma to combat them. I feel my grandkids will grow up in a world quite different from mine, where travel and experiences will be gated and limited by fear of contagious disease. That sucks and didn't need to happen. Thought experiment for anti-vaxxers - what if there…

If the vaccines prevent symptoms but not transmission, that sounds like a much better breeding ground for continued spread and mutation than folks that know they are sick and stay home because they are coughing or have a runny nose. The world isn't nearly as black and white as your 'punish the anti vaxxers' fanfic.

>...that sounds like a much better breeding ground for continued spread and mutation...

Actually, that's already been studied. The virus mutates far less in breakthrough infections among vaccinated individuals than in infected individuals.

COVID-19 vaccines dampen genomic diversity of SARS-CoV-2: Unvaccinated patients exhibit more antigenic mutational variance:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.01.21259833v...

>...The societal benefit of mass vaccination may consequently go far beyond the widely reported mitigation of SARS-CoV-2 infection risk and amelioration of community transmission, to include stemming of rampant viral evolution.