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Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

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Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#161

Post by ds206 »

platz wrote: post #123
handrous wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel this way because the behavior's largely imitative, or because it's happening on a computer? Is designing and building a replica of a Boeing 747 with LEGO also not creative? Or making some kind of Rube Goldberg machine with LEGO Technic parts and junk from around your house? I would expect not, under this framework for what is and is not creative. Where's the line, though?

It's not because it's happening on a computer. It's because the behavior is largely imitative or following a script. The initial folks who figured out how to build a computer a minecraft were very creative. Rube Goldberg machines I think do involve a fair amount of creativity. it's not because they are physical per-se, but because the physical environment tends to force individual and creative thinking to solve the p…

I disagree and think that learning through imitation is itself a creative process. It opens up possibilities that didn't exist for the imitator beforehand. It shows how things work and creates new conceptual models in their minds. At the same time, I do think that creating from first principles is the most creative.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#162

Post by endominus »

jerf wrote: post #71
jdhn wrote: post #43

Star Citizen has proven one thing to me, and that is that dreamers (Chris Roberts) who are developing incredibly ambitious need to be held in check by good PMs who are willing to push back when necessary. This thing has been developed for so long, and it seems like there's always excuses as to how there's something new to be added and that's why it's taking so long to even get to 1.0 status.

It's a problem across the artistic genres. Authors who become too famous to be edited often have a bad decline in their later years, because they really need to be edited. (One of the things I respect Larry Niven for is his insistence that he be edited, even though within his niche he reached the point where he could have done the same thing.) Movie directors that become too big to say no to often turn out to not qui…

Absolutely agreed. The other big example I can think of is Kojima, one of very few game directors I personally consider a true auteur. I just wish he still has people around him that could tell him, "So the player defeats the boss, learns about her genuinely heartbreaking tragic backstory as victim to vicious war crimes, and then... takes photos of her in lingerie? While she walks around and makes suggestive poses? Is... Is that really the tone we want to go for at this point?"

It's a shame, considering how on-point a lot of the messages in his earlier games were (the speech by the AI on the role of automated systems filtering human knowledge to "create context" out of endless junk data streams - in a game that came out in 2001! - always sticks out to me), even if sometimes his actual scientific knowledge was a bit shaky. (You know why Solid Snake never lost his full head of hair? Male pattern baldness is a dominant gene!)

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#163

Post by aseipp »

jessfyi wrote: post #61
nirui wrote: post #26

Well at least this thing has reached v1.0 LOL Joke aside, I want to say something controversial here: I don't think the release date/progress matters much anymore for the dev team at this day and age. At least not as matter as it used to be when the game plan was just announced. The same point is somewhat true for their backers: they are not in a hurry as well, they want to (emotionally) see Star Citizen success one…

I don't know how you can seriously mention Freelancer without mentioning that it was completely taken out of the over-promising grip of Chris Roberts. Great game, but I despise the fact that people attribute the work of those programmers who worked to actually put the thing out (when he got his golden parachute and all they got was more crunch) to that huckster.

And if you read any of the profiles of Chris Roberts or people talking about working at RSI on Star Citizen (Kotaku did a multi-part series on it years ago), you'll see an image of nothing more than a petty, micromanaging boss who does nothing but interfere in literally everything, resulting in a dysfunctional studio. This isn't surprising; any cursory glance at their roadmaps, their former promises, their history, their delays etc, clearly paints a picture of severe mismanagement, no matter how much fans excuse it.

In fact, one aspect of Freelancer that's been left to history is the fact that when Microsoft bought some equity in his studio before acquiring them entirely, some producers claimed he later used part of that money to fund his failed movie ventures instead of Freelancer, which were also later held afloat by a weird German tax fraud scheme (the mastermind of which later went to jail, which also resulted in German law changing and his whole excursion into the film industry collapsing instantly). His response to this was "it's fine, because it was general equity stake and not earmarked for Freelancer." The fact they had to wrestle Freelancer away from him is absolutely not surprising when he quite literally was dicking around on C-tier shitfilms like Wing Commander while people busted their ass.

People here are mentioning the notion of auteurs, of visionaries, etc. I disagree; that's an insult to actual creatives. Hideo Kojima is creative and has proven himself time and time again with both his repeated success and his wide array of unusual work. Everything I've seen of him indicates to me that Chris Roberts is, essentially, an overly ambitious child of a man and petty boss who was lucky Richard Garriott ever gave him a chance, and has ridden on almost nothing more than his legacy at Origin Systems, and has been desperately attempting to capture that again ever since.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#164

Post by hluska »

MR4D wrote: post #107
cletus wrote: post #52

Star Citizen is a cautionary tale about how too much money can be a curse. Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous came around at roughly the same time but Elite has been a complete game for years. Elite did things right in the sense that they released a complete game and added to it. I've seen videos on Star Citizen talking about new systems they're adding like being put in prison and escaping and all I can think of is tha…

> Star Citizen is a cautionary tale about how too much money can be a curse. Star Citizen should be a B-school case study about how to raise money and make a good living doing what you enjoy. The fact that they continually raise money over years is telling that RSI is a huge success. [0] [0] - https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2021-03-15-star-citiz...

This is a great idea - Star Citizen would be a perfect marketing case study on the power of story. This is a really exciting idea - thanks for sharing it and getting my mind working this morning!!

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#165

Post by hluska »

platz wrote: post #117
georgeecollins wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is interesting to see how much people want the dream of a game, the evolving story, and the community. It is a great example of the things people want from gaming-- and life I guess. The closest thing I can think of is Minecraft, which IMO is a 100x better game but still you can't play it forever. People loved the creativity of it, but even more they liked the idea and the story of the creativity. How many…

Making a computer or a display or many of the huge replicas in minecraft isn't creative. They are just technical achievements.

I agreed completely until I started playing Minecraft with kids. Once they taught me how to play, I got to see the amount of creativity within the game. From my perspective, it's a really amazing way to start instilling mathematical literacy in kids and the best part is that they have so much fun they don't even realize it. As an example, thanks to Minecraft, my five year old already has an understanding of exponents. I didn't do that.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#166

Post by MrZongle2 »

xioxox wrote: post #143
cletus wrote: post #52

Star Citizen is a cautionary tale about how too much money can be a curse. Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous came around at roughly the same time but Elite has been a complete game for years. Elite did things right in the sense that they released a complete game and added to it. I've seen videos on Star Citizen talking about new systems they're adding like being put in prison and escaping and all I can think of is tha…

There are also the X3 games from Egosoft (e.g. Terran Conflict/Albion Prelude), which are great fun for building a space trading empire, exploring, waging war or being a pirate. Warning: they can suck up a lot of time. They aren't the easiest to learn games and there's a lot of modding potential. They started with a lot of bugs, but are much more playable now. X4 Foundations is the new release, but I haven't tried it…

I had heard great things about X3 for years, so I picked up X4 on release.

Major mistake. The game was buggy, and the worlds cold and lifeless. The fanboys excused it as "well, every Egosoft game is released like this... but it gets better after a few updates...."

Haven't played X4 in a long time. I've heard its better, but I would caution people interested in purchasing the game to do their research, and only buy it on sale.

And never buy an Egosoft product within 6 months of release, at a minimum.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#167

Post by MaxfordAndSons »

georgeecollins wrote: post #110
MR4D wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Star Citizen is a cautionary tale about how too much money can be a curse. Star Citizen should be a B-school case study about how to raise money and make a good living doing what you enjoy. The fact that they continually raise money over years is telling that RSI is a huge success. [0] [0] - https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2021-03-15-star-citiz...

I think it is interesting to see how much people want the dream of a game, the evolving story, and the community. It is a great example of the things people want from gaming-- and life I guess. The closest thing I can think of is Minecraft, which IMO is a 100x better game but still you can't play it forever. People loved the creativity of it, but even more they liked the idea and the story of the creativity. How many…

The anticipation of an experience can be more enjoyable than the experience itself.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#168

Post by MR4D »

hluska wrote: post #164
MR4D wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Star Citizen is a cautionary tale about how too much money can be a curse. Star Citizen should be a B-school case study about how to raise money and make a good living doing what you enjoy. The fact that they continually raise money over years is telling that RSI is a huge success. [0] [0] - https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2021-03-15-star-citiz...

This is a great idea - Star Citizen would be a perfect marketing case study on the power of story. This is a really exciting idea - thanks for sharing it and getting my mind working this morning!!

Thanks!

You know, as much as I see people complain about their jobs or companies they work for, Chris Roberts has been able to figure it out. His delivery isn’t the best, but many people love the work he does, and that gives him a job for life that he loves.

I think it would be great if everyone on HN would be able to crowdfund a job they love. Some will deliver better than others, but it would probably reduce the stress and frustration about companies that people have.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#169

Post by duskwuff »

Ardren wrote: post #23

CIG know what people really want to know about the development status: When is the estimated release for S42 or Star Citizen. They know what this answer is, but they will go to great lengths not to share. For example, this detailed look at what each team/person is doing, but only for 9 months. With no idea how they relate to an actual release.

> When is the estimated release for S42 or Star Citizen.

At the rate at which the scope of the project has been expanding? Never.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#170

Post by notjustanymike »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #166
xioxox wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also the X3 games from Egosoft (e.g. Terran Conflict/Albion Prelude), which are great fun for building a space trading empire, exploring, waging war or being a pirate. Warning: they can suck up a lot of time. They aren't the easiest to learn games and there's a lot of modding potential. They started with a lot of bugs, but are much more playable now. X4 Foundations is the new release, but I haven't tried it…

I had heard great things about X3 for years, so I picked up X4 on release. Major mistake. The game was buggy, and the worlds cold and lifeless. The fanboys excused it as "well, every Egosoft game is released like this... but it gets better after a few updates...." Haven't played X4 in a long time. I've heard its better, but I would caution people interested in purchasing the game to do their research, and only buy it…

Yep did this as well, but knew full well it wasn't ready. Checked back this year, lo and behold a full and wonderful game.

It's just how Egosoft works apparently.

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