Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, what is actually included? Isn’t everything electronic now?
It's "digital electronic product...found in medical settings", I'd imagine
It's comma soup, there's no way to parse this reliably.
New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill
161–170 of 206 posts
Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill
#162What would be the best argument against this sort of legislation?
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Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
So if I buy a keysight scope that thing will die quickly?
Depends on which phase of the moon it is. Best to look at the total cost of ownership over the warranty period and see if you’re happy with the monthly total. Anything outside that is a bonus! Same applies to Apple. Keysight’s semi legendary reputation for reliability comes from the second hand market which has had all the lemons removed from the table. Their production reputation is “average” and their in warranty f…
And that disconnect between economics and what’s environmentally manageable is at the very heart of a lot of modern problems.
I often wonder, if there will ever be a way to make that widening chasm disappear, other than going back to living in caves …
Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absolutely when it comes to tech. It's fairly inconsequential sideloading something to your phone. Medical devices I think should need a someone well versed to work on it. With cars, the current model most states in the US have is a good middle ground. You can do whatever you want to your car, but it needs to pass a safety inspection every 2 years to drive it legally. The inspections in my state are fairly comprehens…
I think we should just have some pretty clear literature that if you modify a device, the manufacturer is not responsible for any injuries it might cause you. Modify a dishwasher and now it fills your kitchen with soap bubbles? Modify a CPAP machine and get killed by it? Not the manufacturer's fault. The US is too litigation happy as it is...
> I think we should just have some pretty clear literature that if you modify a device, the manufacturer is not responsible for any injuries it might cause you.
That's not nearly nuanced enough. Manufacturers should still be responsible unless they can prove you caused the failure. We currently require this standard for something as simple warranty coverage, we ought to require it for something as severe as death.
Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
> IMO it comes down to this: do we advocate for laws that give companies the ability to decide what is right/safe for the public, or do we advocate for laws that reflect trust in the individual? In the US, I think, some companies sell weapons and nobody seems to care if people can hurt themselves with them.
The comparison is more appropriate than you maybe even intended. Cars are considered weapons (e.g. driving at someone is assault with a deadly weapon), and cars are very dangerous in general and kill lots of people (and not just the drivers!). Yet, we still want right-to-repair on cars.
we HAVE right to repair on cars, and we've had it for decades. it's why the OBD-II port is standardized and mandated. it's why you can buy tools built only by the auto manufacturers for working on their own cars. it's why auto manufacturers are required to sell every part and every tool to end customers for at least 10 years after a model year is no longer manufactured. it's why third-party replacement parts are available AT ALL.
people forget all this. this is the same thing people want for farm vehicles and personal electronics.
we got it done for cars and trucks in the late 1980s. I don't understand why it's so hard to get lawmakers on the side of the customer --their constituents-- today.
Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think we should just have some pretty clear literature that if you modify a device, the manufacturer is not responsible for any injuries it might cause you. Modify a dishwasher and now it fills your kitchen with soap bubbles? Modify a CPAP machine and get killed by it? Not the manufacturer's fault. The US is too litigation happy as it is...
IANAL or even a law-enthusiast, but surely we already have case law on this if nothing else? You can't sue the car company if you remove the breaks in your car... right?
I'm not a lawyer either, but I'm fairly sure that "we didn't cause the harm" is a good defense to a claim that they caused harm.
Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Am I being a bit naive to think that this has more to do with public safety? In theory, there is some increased level of regulation/review of the car and medical device manufacturers that limits the risk these repairs aren’t done to an appropriate standard? You can make a trade-off between standard of repair and price for your iPhone that only impacts the device, but cars and medical devices not properly repaired cou…
You’ve used a grey argument. Apple themselves have argued that one of the reasons they have to limit repair is for public safety (someone could have a battery explode if they pierce it, for example), whereas we could also argue the other side: that if someone modifies their own medical device and gets hurt because of it that they legally only hurt themselves because they had the right to make that choice. IMO it come…
While Apple has made that argument, their devices are not primarily intended to support life, and the vast majority of failures due to bad repairs don't kill people.
And often with medical devices, they may often be supporting the life of someone other than the original purchaser and sole maintainer.
Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
These laws obligate the manufacturer to release maintenance and repair manuals, like the ones they provide to the authorized service centers; and ban all litigation related to someone providing unauthorized services, etc... Depending on the law, it may also require more documentation, ban on total lockdown of devices and obligation to sell spare parts(but you often can buy genuine spare parts through service centers)…
> Right to fix also doesn't cover warranties, as you will loose your warranty when doing it yourself. The Magnussen-Moss warranty act of 1975 states (IANAL) that a repair cannot void the warranty unless the manufacturer can prove that your repair caused the damage in question. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...
This is correct. Those "warranty void if broken" stickers are only worth as much as they mislead people into not bothering to push for warranty claims. (and if it's on something that's not a "consumer good")
Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps, but it’s clear we must both lower costs (fix repair laws) and provide free medical care for everyone. So fixing repair is one important step towards an end goal of health care for everyone.
I agree, but I'd also say there's a line between inconsequential things like a chair motor, and something giving life support to someone. It would suck to die because the repair guy didn't solder the wire correctly. It's really tough to draw that line though, and it's in the manufactures interest $ + lawsuit wise to play it safe.
Regulating the quality of repair is a separate issue from sourcing parts. The hospital and their insurance company will be well inclined to make sure that repairs are done properly, but we should let the people who own the chair (and some oversight board) decide policy for those repairs, not equipment manufacturers who have a vested interest in selling new equipment.
Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
We excluded autos because the Massachusetts auto right to repair bill (most recently updated in November) covers this, and there's a nationwide MOU. Tesla is the only manufacturer that has not signed this MOU. There is a lawsuit around that ballot initiative, and iFixit and EFF just filed an Amicus on Monday supporting the law. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/06/eff-files-amicus-brief... Sometimes it's better to f…
What about "digital electronic product"? Doesn't that exclude phones and laptops?
There's no comma after that phrase indicating that it's a separate item in the list.
I believe that is intended to be read as "digital electronic product or embedded software found in medical settings."
After all, the description of what the bill does apply to is "digital electronic equipment". Interpreting it to apply to "equipment" but not "products" doesn't really make sense.