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Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

theguardian.com

161–170 of 222 posts

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#161
post #159

"The microwave auditory effect, also known as the microwave hearing effect or the Frey effect, consists of the human perception of audible clicks, or even speech, induced by pulsed or modulated radio frequencies. The communications are generated directly inside the human head without the need of any receiving electronic device." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect

painful and ineffective

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#162
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine a direct beam would cause visible burns, but something that never occurred to me is using beamforming to zap inside someone's head. Yikes. Disclaimer: I'm not a physicist.

Basic problem: How do you target this? Advanced problem: how do you avoid accidentally killing someone while targeting this? You're just talking about shooting "at" someone's head, you're talking about positioning their head in 3D space and shooting so precisely (through potentially layers of brick, metal brick ties, lath etc.) that you hit only inside their head and don't leave any marks or burns on the skin. We don…

Beamforming is a solved problem, using the interference of multiple antennas' energy to resonate at exactly the right location for maximum strength. Why do you think this technology isn't reliable?

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have two of the following three. Small size (less than thirty meters), low scatter, and power. If you're going to have a powerful microwave brain frying system radiating over a 50m^2 area there is no way you're not going to light up the neighborhood in EM. Just can't happen, sorry.

I don't know why you think a brain frying system needs to operate over a 50m^2 area or why you think it needs to be small. Buildings with windows exist as do building across from those windowed buildings. Maybe some day someone will invent phased array antennas and you'll be able to direct narrow beam emissions without having to physically move the antenna. I can dream I guess.

Phased array antennas have very high scatter compared to classical antennas of a similar size, Because they scatter in lobes.

50m^2 is quite small. There is no reasonable way of knowing where your target will be across a wall.

But even if you made it only 5m^2 you'd still be dumping off-axis like a 100w omnidirectional antenna at the very best.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#164
post #162
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic problem: How do you target this? Advanced problem: how do you avoid accidentally killing someone while targeting this? You're just talking about shooting "at" someone's head, you're talking about positioning their head in 3D space and shooting so precisely (through potentially layers of brick, metal brick ties, lath etc.) that you hit only inside their head and don't leave any marks or burns on the skin. We don…

Beamforming is a solved problem, using the interference of multiple antennas' energy to resonate at exactly the right location for maximum strength. Why do you think this technology isn't reliable?

Because you are trying to hit a 15cm by 15cm sphere in 3D space that you cannot see.

That it could maybe be done under ideal conditions doesn't explain how you do it when the target is mobile (but let's be generous and say you assume they're in bed), and you need to accurately visualize where they are through an unspecified amount of intermediate interfering elements (people's bedrooms aren't glass boxes).

Foil wall insulation would disrupt an attempt at microwave beamforming - so how is targeting being achieved so precisely as to be undetectable and cause no other environmental effects?

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#166
post #71
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you noticed how microwave cooking is not warming up the skin any faster than the insides? The wavelength is selected so that it penetrates and warms water molecules. It would cook your insides according to their water content. Surface of the skin has less water than tissue inside, so you would feel pain beneath the skin.

MythBusters tested that, the outsides (of food) heat up first.

MythBusters notwithstanding I have an RF burn on one of my fingers that was barely visible at the surface when it happened but which totally cooked the tissue up to about 6 millimeters inwards. It's a pretty weird spot, 2.5 mm across and even 35 years later it hasn't healed, the zone is simply dead to the touch even though the flesh has recovered. You can also still see exactly the shape of the original burn.

Note to self: pay attention when trimming HF transmitters about where you keep stray digits and where the locations of the tops of trimmers are relative to those digits.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#167
post #164
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beamforming is a solved problem, using the interference of multiple antennas' energy to resonate at exactly the right location for maximum strength. Why do you think this technology isn't reliable?

Because you are trying to hit a 15cm by 15cm sphere in 3D space that you cannot see . That it could maybe be done under ideal conditions doesn't explain how you do it when the target is mobile (but let's be generous and say you assume they're in bed), and you need to accurately visualize where they are through an unspecified amount of intermediate interfering elements (people's bedrooms aren't glass boxes). Foil wall…

But you could set up a field in such a way that statistically speaking inside any 15x15x15 sphere there would be at least one reinforcement happening.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#168
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The math would be interesting to see. I haven't seen a directed energy antenna, but you can easily drop 9db with single digit degrees off target with a big dish.

9dB is really not a lot. If you're going to be sending 10kW+ of radiation 9dB of directionality still means you're gonna light up the whole neighborhood.

In the most literal sense of the word. 1 KW at 100 meters on a directional antenna like that will happily light up neon tubes. The field is going to be a few hundred V/meter.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#169
post #71
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you noticed how microwave cooking is not warming up the skin any faster than the insides? The wavelength is selected so that it penetrates and warms water molecules. It would cook your insides according to their water content. Surface of the skin has less water than tissue inside, so you would feel pain beneath the skin.

MythBusters tested that, the outsides (of food) heat up first.

Oh well it must be the case then? Microwaves resonate with water molecules. If the surface is moist it will heat first. If not... Well it won't!

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#170
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine a direct beam would cause visible burns, but something that never occurred to me is using beamforming to zap inside someone's head. Yikes. Disclaimer: I'm not a physicist.

Basic problem: How do you target this? Advanced problem: how do you avoid accidentally killing someone while targeting this? You're just talking about shooting "at" someone's head, you're talking about positioning their head in 3D space and shooting so precisely (through potentially layers of brick, metal brick ties, lath etc.) that you hit only inside their head and don't leave any marks or burns on the skin. We don…

Use radar for targeting. WiFi has been used to see peoples bodies through walls, 10GHz has been used in radars, the same beam that destroys can be used to image the target. You may not even need to do imaging, just look for resonance or increased energy absorption to indicate the beam is on target.
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