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Django 3.2

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Re: Django 3.2

#161

Post by codethief »

ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #135
peterpostman wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of years ago(2014) I made my first Python website and really enjoyed, however when it was time to put it onlin I quickly discovered that setting up hosting and configuring it was as large a task in getting to know pip, env, unicorn, apache2 and a plethora of other software to host it, is this still the case? Becaue this is what keeps me of hosting websites with python.

I was in a similar position a few years ago too, until I forced myself to learn Docker. Now, all my projects are started from the same building blocks: Docker + Django + Gunicorn + Nginx + Postgres. And I love it. Now I have traefic at the top of My to-learn list so that I can host multiple projects in the same VPS. Last weekend I learned to use 11ty — the first static site generator I managed to grasp — and I'll ent…

> Now I have traefic at the top of My to-learn list so that I can host multiple projects in the same VPS.

Traefik is very cool! Just please don't fall into this trap here, like everyone else: https://github.com/traefik/traefik/issues/4174

Re: Django 3.2

#162

Post by hallman76 »

Sileni wrote: post #74
peterpostman wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of years ago(2014) I made my first Python website and really enjoyed, however when it was time to put it onlin I quickly discovered that setting up hosting and configuring it was as large a task in getting to know pip, env, unicorn, apache2 and a plethora of other software to host it, is this still the case? Becaue this is what keeps me of hosting websites with python.

At least with pip and env, you'd have a hard time doing general tasks in python without getting to know them anyway. You can also shortcut a lot of that with a hosting service like Heroku, which takes on a lot of the mental overhead for you. You've made me curious to ask, what programming environments don't have a significant learning curve when you get to the hosting portion, short of a "no-code" hosting solution?

> You've made me curious to ask, what programming environments don't have a significant learning curve when you get to the hosting portion, short of a "no-code" hosting solution?

With java you can deploy a "fat jar" - a single executable that contains everything it needs, including the web server. You start the jar, it binds to a port, and you're done.

Re: Django 3.2

#163

Post by buffalobuffalo »

pydry wrote: post #153
buffalobuffalo wrote: post #138

A couple thoughts on django as a long time user. First, the good: - Django was the first framework i learned when learning to code. It's documentation was amazing, and it made conceptualizing an MVC framework really easy. - Django's ORM is phenomenal for managing migrations of a relational database, especially postgres with stuff like jsonb. I've even included it in non-python projects, just to handle table migration…

>- It doesn't play nicely with a lot of the rest of the python ecosystem. Want to swap in SQLAlchemy? Sorry, no dice. Being extremely opinionated about stuff like ORM and admin is partly how it developed such a rich ecosystem of plugins. Those plugins exist because they can build upon those foundations. Flask, by dint of being unopinionated doesn't have solid foundations that its plugins can build upon. This is why y…

I think you could probably abstract away some of the differences between djangoORM and SQLalchemy. Maybe something like a model class that uses sqlchemy for the underlying orm interactions. Not that i really blame them for using their limited dev resources elsewhere.

Re: Django 3.2

#164

Post by buffalobuffalo »

yhoiseth wrote: post #144
buffalobuffalo wrote: post #138

A couple thoughts on django as a long time user. First, the good: - Django was the first framework i learned when learning to code. It's documentation was amazing, and it made conceptualizing an MVC framework really easy. - Django's ORM is phenomenal for managing migrations of a relational database, especially postgres with stuff like jsonb. I've even included it in non-python projects, just to handle table migration…

How productive are you with FastAPI compared to Django? I’m thinking of things like forms, error handling and all the other extra stuff that comes with decoupling the frontend and backend.

Not nearly as productive. That's why django is definitely a better choice for rapid prototyping. But if I'm working on a larger project that I'm hoping to maintain for years, up-front productivity usually takes a back seat to maintainability/scalability/extensibility. For those, I'd go with FastApi

Re: Django 3.2

#165

Post by buffalobuffalo »

skrtskrt wrote: post #151
yhoiseth wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How productive are you with FastAPI compared to Django? I’m thinking of things like forms, error handling and all the other extra stuff that comes with decoupling the frontend and backend.

The main thing I would wonder about is if there's a good auth plugin for FastAPI. I am not a huge fan of Django, but if you have already chosen Python, it is really hard to argue with having good, battle-tested auth system out of the box.

The other side of the coin is that django's auth system is pretty rigid. Adding additional fields to the user object is clunky, and trying to do an unusual auth flow can be downright ugly. Dealing with that a few times can leave you a lot more open to designing your own and/or patching together other libraries. At least, that's how it went for me a few years ago.

Re: Django 3.2

#166

Post by jacobian »

codestasis wrote: post #5

Congratulations to the Django project and contributors on a big LTS release. And a huge thank you for the consistently excellent framework that so many have built their web dev careers on. I'll post this as a Show HN soon, but I'll mention it now as a soft-launch introduction. After a decade of using Django I started a project I always wanted to exist: backported security and bug fixes to old versions that the Django…

This is so cool, I’m really glad to see someone doing this. Best of luck!

Re: Django 3.2

#167

Post by kstrauser »

buffalobuffalo wrote: post #138

A couple thoughts on django as a long time user. First, the good: - Django was the first framework i learned when learning to code. It's documentation was amazing, and it made conceptualizing an MVC framework really easy. - Django's ORM is phenomenal for managing migrations of a relational database, especially postgres with stuff like jsonb. I've even included it in non-python projects, just to handle table migration…

I've summarized this elsewhere:

Django is really great for writing Django apps. It's not great for writing other kinds of apps.

If your app is a CRUD interface over a relational DB, it's awesome and I mean that sincerely. I'll happily reach for it instead of reinventing that nicely crafted wheel.

If your app isn't -- say, it's backed with noSQL or maybe is a frontend over a bunch of backend API calls such that you're not using its ORM or its permission model -- then it feels like a box of pain.

Re: Django 3.2

#168

Post by hdbsjahxb »

ataylor32 wrote: post #82
onepointsixC wrote: post #77

What ever happened to the Async ORM? I thought that was originally supposed to be part of Django's 3.2 as part of their Async roll out.

I think if that was ever said by a core member, it was stated as a goal, not a for sure thing. I believe I've only ever heard it as speculation / wishful thinking.

https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/3.1/topics/async/

Re: Django 3.2

#169

Post by hdbsjahxb »

buffalobuffalo wrote: post #138

A couple thoughts on django as a long time user. First, the good: - Django was the first framework i learned when learning to code. It's documentation was amazing, and it made conceptualizing an MVC framework really easy. - Django's ORM is phenomenal for managing migrations of a relational database, especially postgres with stuff like jsonb. I've even included it in non-python projects, just to handle table migration…

You can absolutely use sqlalchemy
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