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A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

blogs.windows.com

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Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#161

Post by pjmlp »

piokoch wrote: post #131
qalmakka wrote: post #70

I hope that the possibility of an industry-wide switch to ARM doesn't take away the flexibility we now have with the PC. Standardized parts and a well defined firmware interface (and thus "standard" bootloaders instead of a multitude like on ARM) is what makes the PC truly special. Moving to a world where you can't install Linux or where every single machine has incompatible firmware would be disastrous, IMHO. Curren…

"Current PCs can last for decades" this might not sound as an advantage for PC computer producers. Surely they would prefer mobile devices model in which many people switch device every 2 years. I bet there are some higher ups in Dell, HP counting how wonderful it would be to force people to switch to the new model more often. Or maybe even sell hardware subscription. This would be terrible for the environment, but w…

This has already happened, outside a few niches, most consumers have moved into laptops, and they are increasingly more integrated.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#162

Post by terramex »

Yuioup wrote: post #141
ClosedGL wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the Raspberry Pi is running Windows and the games you want to play were compiled for x86_64 or ARM, yes. The emulation will allow software that was only compiled for x86_64 to run on ARM.

In theory I can play old games on it, like Daggerfall.

Daggerfall is 32-bit app (or maybe even 16-bit?) so it could run on Windows ARM edition for a few years.

There is no official support for full Windows 10 on RPi though, only stripped down IoT version or unofficial loaders: https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/01/27/windows-10-arm-on-r...

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#164

Post by bluGill »

kenjackson wrote: post #144
the_af wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, you cannot use a dishwasher to create new things the designers didn't foresee. It's not a general purpose tool but an appliance. That's why the war on general purpose computing is so upsetting: it seeks to turn general purpose tools into appliances.

I think the point is that for the vast number of people, PCs are already appliances. It isn’t this change that made them into appliances, it was their natural change in usage - as noted by a previous poster.

They are not appliances. When I buy an appliance I expect to know by the marketing brochures in advance exactly what it will do, and I expect it to do exactly that until it wears out. When I buy a phone or game system I expect to install new functions on it: things not even thought about by the manufacture.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#165

Post by pjmlp »

microtonal wrote: post #117
sneak wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The xbox and the iPhone are the security models I expect on almost all mainstream computing devices soon. I estimate that it will be impossible or near impossible to execute any code that was not approved by the hardware vendor, and obtained by the hardware owner IDing themselves to the code distribution/signing service ("stores"). Anonymous software publishing or use/consumption will be relegated solely to what will…

consumer demand for malware-free (but not vendor spyware-free) platforms is driving this in a big way The thing is, you can eat your cake and have it too. Various distributions (e.g. Ubuntu and Fedora) already use secure boot to verify the bootloader - kernel - module chain. There is no reason that this couldn't be extended to e.g. only running signed Flatpaks too. And yet, at the same time, you can boot these distri…

Even Android is better in regards to default security configuration.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#166

Post by bfgoodrich »

pjmlp wrote: post #49
emilsedgh wrote: post #7

I'm wondering what's happening at Microsoft's camp regarding M1. They are in a weird situation. They depend on AMD/Intel to deliver. This is a massive dependency for Microsoft. Are there other large corporations have this big of a dependency? I understand that Microsoft's revenue is shifting towards cloud, services, etc. But I think Windows is still "the" key to a lot of those offerings. Take a massive chunk of marke…

Only on HN bubble does it matter. Apple devices are out of budget for most countries, and they only own 10% of the worldwide market share in computing. Outside desktop, Android owns the mobile market. Really, it is just US analysts going crazy with M1.

HN's "bubble"? Absurd.

We are talking about the most valuable company in the world, and the M1 release was covered enthusiastically the world over. The notion that it's US-only is absolutely preposterous.

Apple is a significant player in mobile in the entirety of the West. Canada, the UK, Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands. And it's PC saturation is virtually the same in Canada and Europe as the US. Even in European media it is incredibly common to see Apple devices (phones and PCs) as the placeholders.

Apple even has 20% of the mobile marketshare in China. That's incredible. It has 60%+ in Japan.

The corporation buying a fleet of low-end PCs for seat warmers aren't going to buy Apple (nor are they buying Surface Pros. They're buying the junkiest HP or Dell they can get). But there are as many "artsy" people, or people who care about the experience, in other rich countries as well.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#167

Post by oaiey »

guytv wrote: post #145
pjmlp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only on HN bubble does it matter. Apple devices are out of budget for most countries, and they only own 10% of the worldwide market share in computing. Outside desktop, Android owns the mobile market. Really, it is just US analysts going crazy with M1.

What's true to the US and HN "bubble" right now, will be the norm for the rest of the world a few years from now. no?

No. The rest of the world still is dominated by Android / Windows 10 years in.

As long as Apple is not selling cheap devices, no chance that this changes.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#168

Post by oaiey »

mythz wrote: post #39
emilsedgh wrote: post #7

I'm wondering what's happening at Microsoft's camp regarding M1. They are in a weird situation. They depend on AMD/Intel to deliver. This is a massive dependency for Microsoft. Are there other large corporations have this big of a dependency? I understand that Microsoft's revenue is shifting towards cloud, services, etc. But I think Windows is still "the" key to a lot of those offerings. Take a massive chunk of marke…

MS have declared Windows 10 as the "last version of windows" [1] as it's essentially transitioning into a free serviced OS like macOS and ChromeOS which after the initial OEM license cost will be receiving free updates indefinitely. MS have been monetizing it as an additional ad platform for its other products & services like One Drive/Office 365/Edge, etc. which I frequently see popup. In that light it makes sense f…

For sure they will support ARM chips. They also see the performance comparison curves.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#169

Post by shawnz »

pjmlp wrote: post #151
guytv wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's true to the US and HN "bubble" right now, will be the norm for the rest of the world a few years from now. no?

If Apple lowers their prices, maybe.

The cheapest M1 devices are already cheaper than equivalently spec'd devices from competitors, like the Surface Pro X.

I think it is safe to assume they will only get cheaper from their launch-day prices.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#170

Post by klelatti »

qalmakka wrote: post #70

I hope that the possibility of an industry-wide switch to ARM doesn't take away the flexibility we now have with the PC. Standardized parts and a well defined firmware interface (and thus "standard" bootloaders instead of a multitude like on ARM) is what makes the PC truly special. Moving to a world where you can't install Linux or where every single machine has incompatible firmware would be disastrous, IMHO. Curren…

I hope that any switch to ARM retains a degree of the flexibility available with the PC but it's important to recognise that

1. x86 probably isn't going away anytime soon and

2. the PC world has come with its own set of constraints - notably being locked-in to (to all practical purposes) a duopoly of CPU manufacturers with the resultant impact on pricing and customer choice.

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