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Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

nytimes.com

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Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#161

Post by speeder »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #144
Ragib_Zaman wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most fruit are nowhere near as healthy as most people expect they are. They have been selectively bred over many hundreds of years to be far larger, sweeter and more devoid of micronutrients than they were hundreds of years ago. The amount of sugar (especially fructose) in fruits like apples, oranges and bananas is shockingly high, and can cause or exacerbate conditions such as obesity, fatty liver, type 2 diabetes,…

Obese people avoiding fruit is one of the biggest eye roll on offer. I had a fat roommate who measured out the raw almonds he ate because they were calorie dense the same day he’d eat two whole pizzas for dinner. Meanwhile, almonds and bananas aren’t the things making people fat. Looking at my own fat friends, some tasty fruit is the only fiber they even get. And vegetables aren’t even on the menu of most fat people…

My grandfather was getting obese and had a risk of getting diabetes.

I always assumed he ate healthy food, since he always made an effort for it.

When his medic reviewed all his food choices... the issue was actually fruit, in particular various kind of oranges, my grandpa just loves oranges and will eat them often, several per day.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#162

Post by fodmap »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #82
simtel20 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you mention IBS in the context of fructose, are you aware of the the phenomena of fructose malabsorption? My wife has this combination of issues at times, strongly related to eating or drinking of apples or apple juice and other similarly high fructose fruits and extracts like agave.

Yup. I follow a FODMAP diet and that really works for me.

I can vouch for the FODMAP diet as well, it really saved me from my daily misery.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#163

Post by tubularhells »

jiofih wrote: post #100
tubularhells wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are comparing the sugars in raw food to something heavily processed. That's not a good comparison.

Sugar is sugar. HFCS is a bit worse, but in the broader context of dietary intake it will make no difference.

Do you also think processed rice products like flours, pasta are the same as whole rice cooked?

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#164

Post by gizmo385 »

stronglikedan wrote: post #145
jjav wrote: post #53

Started having severe gout attacks in 2004. Doctors are particularly unaware about gout. Despite having extremely painful and long attacks (during one attack, spent more than a month in bed unable to walk), all the doctors I saw had no idea despite endless tests. Finally based on my own research I suggested gout and they were like "oh yes, I suppose it could be that". Once diagnosed, doctors are quick to get you on d…

> doctors are quick to get you on daily drugs for the rest of your life. When all you really need is an 8oz glass of tart cherry juice per day [0]. If you have "trigger" foods [1], then those still need to be avoided, but the cherry juice will allow you to enjoy a normal, non-excessive diet of pretty much everything else. [0] Sweet cherry juice works too, but you need a lot more of it, to the point where it would be…

Do you have any sources for this?

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#165

Post by CyberDildonics »

sqldba wrote: post #112
jiofih wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sugar is sugar. HFCS is a bit worse, but in the broader context of dietary intake it will make no difference.

That’s a very simplistic way of looking at things which isn’t supported by medical science. Specifically glucose, fructose, sucrose, are worth treating differently for the purposes of diet management.

It is simplistic, but for most people it is probably a great start.

When people talk about sugar like this they are talking about fructose. Bringing glucose into it confuses people since it is scientifically sugar, but not what people mean when they talk about eating sugar, which is just eating sweets, soda, juice, etc.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#166

Post by wyldfire »

gizmo385 wrote: post #164
stronglikedan wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doctors are quick to get you on daily drugs for the rest of your life. When all you really need is an 8oz glass of tart cherry juice per day [0]. If you have "trigger" foods [1], then those still need to be avoided, but the cherry juice will allow you to enjoy a normal, non-excessive diet of pretty much everything else. [0] Sweet cherry juice works too, but you need a lot more of it, to the point where it would be…

Do you have any sources for this?

"Consumption of 100% Tart Cherry Juice Reduces Serum Urate in Overweight and Obese Adults" [1] seems relevant.

Also, it's not precisely advice for gout, but cherry juice has also been studied [2] for pain relief.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6483050/

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874510/

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#167

Post by wyldfire »

Ragib_Zaman wrote: post #69
rusk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By cutting out “fructose” surely you don’t mean cutting out fruit? Do mean derivatives like fructose syrup and stuff?

Most fruit are nowhere near as healthy as most people expect they are. They have been selectively bred over many hundreds of years to be far larger, sweeter and more devoid of micronutrients than they were hundreds of years ago. The amount of sugar (especially fructose) in fruits like apples, oranges and bananas is shockingly high, and can cause or exacerbate conditions such as obesity, fatty liver, type 2 diabetes,…

> The amount of sugar (especially fructose) in fruits like apples, oranges and bananas is shockingly high, and can cause or exacerbate conditions such as obesity, fatty liver, type 2 diabetes, gout and other metabolic or inflammatory diseases.

While vegetables are often superior to fruit for the reasons you indicate, if your diet contains neither then you could still consider fruit a 'step down' from the ever-popular refined carb snacks. Most fruit contains enough fiber to help you feel more satiated than a refined carb snack would.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#168

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

stronglikedan wrote: post #145
jjav wrote: post #53

Started having severe gout attacks in 2004. Doctors are particularly unaware about gout. Despite having extremely painful and long attacks (during one attack, spent more than a month in bed unable to walk), all the doctors I saw had no idea despite endless tests. Finally based on my own research I suggested gout and they were like "oh yes, I suppose it could be that". Once diagnosed, doctors are quick to get you on d…

> doctors are quick to get you on daily drugs for the rest of your life. When all you really need is an 8oz glass of tart cherry juice per day [0]. If you have "trigger" foods [1], then those still need to be avoided, but the cherry juice will allow you to enjoy a normal, non-excessive diet of pretty much everything else. [0] Sweet cherry juice works too, but you need a lot more of it, to the point where it would be…

I've had some success with tart cherry juice (Montmorency) as well.

I had my first gout attack in my mid-40s - I'm pretty fit and not noticeably overweight (lots of cycling) and got a foot pain that I thought was a small broken bone or some-such. My GP had one look and realised it was gout (red inflammation is a giveaway). Anyway, I just took Ibuprofen and lots of liquid for a few days and it went away.

I've had a few minor bouts of it that seem to be brought on by either eating asparagus or mackerel or not drinking enough water, so I tried the cherry juice for a while which seemed to work. After a year or so of that, I thought I'd just try drinking more water instead - that works most of the time though I did have a minor gout episode just last week.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#170

Post by glofish »

webmaven wrote: post #156
Fumtumi wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me formulate it different: Its 'healthier' to consume the same amount of sugar through fruits than through pure sugar due to its being easier for your body. It does not change your calorie intake at all as its the same amount.

> It does not change your calorie intake at all as its the same amount. Glossing over what an insulin spike makes your body do with those calories is a bit disingenuous.

Exactly this.

The most common and pervasive misconceptions about nutrition use the extremely simplistic view of it, believing that in the end all matters is that you end up with N grams of say sugar.

The effects on the body of consuming an apple versus the equivalent two table spoons of raw sugar are not even remotely similar.

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