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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

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Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#161

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

oxymoran wrote: post #67
convery wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ye, but how could one possibly do that?

Break the great firewall. Show the Chinese citizens exactly what the CCP is doing and hope that they revolt. Starlink should have the power to do that very soon.

Chinese citizens generally know more about what the CPC is doing than foreigners. They're not nearly as information-starved or brainwashed as you probably think.

The thing that would really blow many people's minds is that most Chinese people support the types of policies that people in the West find disturbing. One of the things that really surprised me was the level of support for the One Child Policy, for example. Part of this is that the news media in the West generally do a terrible job of describing Chinese policies - they tend towards sensationalism and demonization. The other part of it is that many people in the West have a hard time understanding the priorities and mindset people in a developing country.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#162

Post by 49531 »

BowBun wrote: post #43

I'm seeing a lot of flagged comments and repeated commenters seeming to exaggerate viewpoints and stir up discord in this thread. I'm not always on the 'china bad' train but it seems like their social engineering efforts have reached HN. Readers, please double-check your sources and form your own opinions beyond repeating what you read in an HN thread.

The problem I am having is that articles like this make it to the front page of HN while not providing any sources of their own. We've seen a sharp uptick in anti-Chinese rhetoric over the last couple of years and most of it seems to be coming from the US State Dept. I have no special place in my heart for China, but this is too reminiscent of US propaganda tactics used to justify invasion in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#163

Post by crazypyro »

mattnewton wrote: post #104
magicsmoke wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in an extreme twist of irony, the NYPD officer is ethnically Tibetan.

He probably had family they got to.

There will always be a segment of any oppressed population that is willing to side with their oppressors.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#164

Post by dcolkitt »

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

The one silver lining is that Bhutan remains free and independent and intensely preserves its traditional culture. Its language, religion, and culture aren't exactly Tibetan, but they're fairly contiguous. About roughly equal to the difference between Spain and Portugal.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#165

Post by cwwc »

dumb1224 wrote: post #132
cwwc wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great point. An additional aspect to this is developers - while living in China, I spoke with a number of officials who essentially admitted that a major aspect of "relocation" was driven by developers who purchased land from the local governments and then were lent money by the local government. When those buildings weren't filled, and with the pressure to pay back loans mounting, the developers and local…

What you are saying is definitely true in a general sense; a lot of local gov income comprises of shady land deals. However it is a bit different in 'far border' areas such as Tibet/Xinjiang. Land is not scarce, and development not so attractive. Also as some one grew up in China I would take a pinch of salt on what the 'officials' are admitting. There won't be anything meaningful if you haven't got a real tie with t…

Point taken, and agreed.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#166

Post by sobellian »

dragonwriter wrote: post #119
logicallee wrote: post #22

I think the million+ uighers in concentration camps are a precise analogy for death camps run by you know who in the 20th century. The u.s. should tell China, hey you hid your concentration camps really well, we totally just found out like today, but the thing is we can't let this go on so you have to free all your concentration camps in 18 months or we come invade. Sorrrry. We totally didnt know you were doing this.…

> The u.s. should tell China, hey you hid your concentration camps really well, we totally just found out like today, but the thing is we can't let this go on so you have to free all your concentration camps in 18 months or we come invade. The US isn't going to invade China; I mean, it fought North Korea to a draw and could stomach Vietnam, and you think it's going to make a credible threat to invade China over inter…

The UN soundly beat North Korea, but it fought China to a draw on Korean soil.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#167

Post by yenwodyah »

free_rms wrote: post #152
yters wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe we do something else bad now, but we no longer do the particular thing known as colonialism

Afghanistan, Iraq? And that's before we get into proxy wars.

Neither of those countries are being colonized, by any definition of the word.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#168

Post by jariel »

dcolkitt wrote: post #164
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

The one silver lining is that Bhutan remains free and independent and intensely preserves its traditional culture. Its language, religion, and culture aren't exactly Tibetan, but they're fairly contiguous. About roughly equal to the difference between Spain and Portugal.

India. At least some number of Tibetans could feasibly find refuge there.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#169

Post by iliveinchina »

dumb1224 wrote: post #118
iliveinchina wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've hiked through regions of Tibet and talked to villagers in relatively remote areas. One thing I saw hiking in the mountains and valleys was abandoned nomad lodges and pastures. My Tibetan guide sadly explained to me that the local officials found the nomads too hard to manage when they were living independently and so used a system of sticks and carrots (fines and subsidies) to move them into villages that were c…

My wife is from Sichuan which is bordering Tibet. It is a bit more complicated than that. Over the years the development has been fast but still far behind the majority of China. The polices to 'encourage' and harness the great overall economic growth were uniquely shaped and had an element of 'outdated' fashion (or USSR style if that's your opinion). And the flags and posters you saw is probably a chicken and egg pr…

I agree, there is some nuance to the matter.

I am partially sympathetic to the idea that this can be a way for people to lead better lives - in the modern, economic sense - instead of subsistence nomading.

At the same time, China has, over the past several years, also demonstrated a trend of new behavior and a clear break away from a previous trend of liberalization that started with Deng. This push in Tibet should be seen in light of what is going on in Xinjiang, Hong Kong, the South China Sea, the East China Sea, Inner Mongolia, and at the Indian border.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#170

Post by actuator »

jariel wrote: post #168
dcolkitt wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one silver lining is that Bhutan remains free and independent and intensely preserves its traditional culture. Its language, religion, and culture aren't exactly Tibetan, but they're fairly contiguous. About roughly equal to the difference between Spain and Portugal.

India. At least some number of Tibetans could feasibly find refuge there.

Along with hosting Dalai Lama, they have a government in exile there as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Tibetan_Administration
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