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Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

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Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#161

Post by dylan604 »

rsynnott wrote: post #141
xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

This sounds fairly dubious. There was a period between sub-megatonne pure fission warheads being standard and multi-megatonne 'hydrogen' ones, but it was under a decade. That seems like a very narrow window to change how cities were planned.

Urban sprawl happened because people were tired of living on top of each other, and cities that had the room to expand used it. There was also another name used for that sprawl, white flight. I think we're seeing some of the results of that today.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#162

Post by jandrese »

guyzero wrote: post #112
sithadmin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I buy it; it sounds like a 'just-so' story. Sprawl is popular because it allows for larger properties at lower prices relative to dense urban development. The vast majority of real estate developers have likely never seriously considered factors like probability of a nuclear strike as a criteria for selecting land for development.

I'm sure someone discussed it once, but Pentagon war planners don't set urban planning policy. People like single family homes, people like yards, people want racist neighbourhood segregation, people really hated urban centers for a long time in the US. All much better explanations.

Also people wanted to start building equity in their home and you largely can't do that in the city because all available properties are rentals.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#163

Post by sudosysgen »

_8j50 wrote: post #142
xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

That would be a lot of ICBMs. The city center is not residential. Most people that work in the city center for city's like houston or LA commute from one of many different cities. Just to wipe out half of houston you would need to simultaneously strike at least a dozen different locations. The idea was, if there is a missile on the way or if other cities are being attacked, the sprawl would allow evacuating a lot of…

It wouldn't be a lot of ICBMs, actually. In reality, it wouldn't even take a single ICBM.

Playing around on Nukemap, 5-6 800kt warheads are enough to kill the majority of people in Houston and give third-degree burns to the rest. A Russian RS-28 Sarmat ICBM should be able to carry 10-15.

Or, with a single 20 megaton warhead, it would kill 1 300 000 people immediately and injure 2 000 000 people.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#164

Post by dylan604 »

BucketsMcG wrote: post #126
xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

For what it's worth, the same thinking was behind the new capital of Myanmar, Naypyidaw. Paranoid military leadership who thought Yangon was too vulnerable to attack, so built a new capital way inland which is massively spread out to make it harder to bomb.

Such a weak argument as we (as humans) just got better at bombing things. More planes + more bombs = problem solved. "You build a bigger shield, we just build a bigger bomb" mentality has to be a core tenet of the military industrial complex.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#165

Post by emteycz »

omosubi wrote: post #125
xg15 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that we have the ability to decouple most administrative work from location thanks to remote working, I wonder how long it will take for the first fully decentralised authoritarian government to appear. Can't have protests in the capital if you don't have a capital.

I guess authoritarians have risen to power over the internet but it's hard to imagine someone exerting that much influence over zoom

The police force would still be centralized. The population would be forced to decentralize.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#167

Post by luckylion »

fireattack wrote: post #157
wongarsu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, I don't like living in the same house as 5 other families, whose sleep schedule doesn't necessarily align with mine. The acoustic isolation is probably a lot better than in typical US houses, but not perfect either. However I do like living 3 minutes from the next supermarket, and 20 minutes from the city center with all the shop, and 25 minutes from my work (all distances by foot). I would love to hav…

>25 minutes from my work This is definitely ideal, but is it achievable (in average , not for any individual) in larger cities even if they are built for walk/public transit? I don't have much experience in Europe, but I knew in Tokyo, which probably has the best public transit in the world, the average commute time is one hour. This is obviously an extreme example as Tokyo is a megacity, but I think majority of peop…

The parent comment said their 25 minutes was "by foot". I've grown up and lived for most of my life in a large German city. I know very few people who can walk 25 minutes or less to get to their work.

Most people use public transportation, and that's usually a 5-10 minute walk to/from the station on each side, and changing trains once or twice. Among my peers, it's usually 30-45 minutes with public transportation. Half that by car, if they don't work in the inner city.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#168

Post by nilpunning »

_8j50 wrote: post #142
xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

That would be a lot of ICBMs. The city center is not residential. Most people that work in the city center for city's like houston or LA commute from one of many different cities. Just to wipe out half of houston you would need to simultaneously strike at least a dozen different locations. The idea was, if there is a missile on the way or if other cities are being attacked, the sprawl would allow evacuating a lot of…

Tokyo was not spared. On March 9-10th 1945 it endured the most destructive and deadly air attack in human history, killing somewhere between 90-100,000 people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_194...). Perhaps by August 6th when the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, the major targets in Tokyo had already been destroyed.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#169

Post by dylan604 »

omosubi wrote: post #125
xg15 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that we have the ability to decouple most administrative work from location thanks to remote working, I wonder how long it will take for the first fully decentralised authoritarian government to appear. Can't have protests in the capital if you don't have a capital.

I guess authoritarians have risen to power over the internet but it's hard to imagine someone exerting that much influence over zoom

We'll just have an executive order banning the use of Zoom. If you don't like something, make it illegal. Problem solved!!

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#170

Post by kiliantics »

xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

I think it's more likely the combined factors of automotive industry lobbying and redlining/white flight that led to the level of urban sprawl you see in the US
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