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Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

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Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#161

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

e12e wrote: post #143
simonsarris wrote: post #132

FYI, what DHS alleges and is trying to stop, however competently or not: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-co...

Wow, that's a long list of mostly labeling minor property damage "violence". In a context where there have been some killings (car driving into demonstrations, shootings) - this seems like a clear case of wrong priorities along the lines of: https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-po... Thanks for posting the link, by the way. Very illuminating to the DHS state of mind.

Yeah,very illuminating. It's amazing how everyone who caused property damage was a "violent anarchist."

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#162

Post by lostmsu »

krapp wrote: post #150
koheripbal wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep denying it as if no one watches the video themselves

Anyone can buy a patch that says "POLICE" on it and sew it to some fatigues. That's not a legitimate form of identification. There is no law enforcement organization or bureau named "POLICE" which one could petition, interview or sue. Stop being purposely obtuse.

That's a stupid argument. Anyone can buy any easily visible publicly recognizable sign.

I fail to see how this badge is insufficient in a potentially aggressive situation.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#163

Post by zajd »

nickysielicki wrote: post #40

If you’re looking to hear the other (pro-police) side of the story, I’d recommend checking out this video by YouTuber “Donut Operator”. He’s a former LEO and he makes pretty fair videos doing breakdowns of officer involved shootings and whether they were justifiable or not. He did some commentary on videos coming out of Portland. https://youtu.be/5EgMijMhS_U

What a shocker that this is the comment that made it to the top of HN. Who could have possibly guessed?

Bunch of bootlickers as far as the eye can see. Imagine what the comments would look like if these videos were coming out of Hong Kong lmao.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#164

Post by krapp »

lostmsu wrote: post #162
krapp wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can buy a patch that says "POLICE" on it and sew it to some fatigues. That's not a legitimate form of identification. There is no law enforcement organization or bureau named "POLICE" which one could petition, interview or sue. Stop being purposely obtuse.

That's a stupid argument. Anyone can buy any easily visible publicly recognizable sign. I fail to see how this badge is insufficient in a potentially aggressive situation.

It's insufficient because it doesn't identify someone as a member of law enforcement in a way that can actually be verified.

Someone in fatigues with a "POLICE" patch driving up in an unmarked van could be the police, or they could be Federal agents, FBI, ATF, ICE, or the like, or they could be some random militia acting like vigilantes. They could be protestors false-flagging. They could be anyone.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#165

Post by rich_sasha »

reaperducer wrote: post #93

I see a lot of comments on HN, and elsewhere along the lines of "America is so terrible! Look how the police treat their own citizens!" The difference between the United States and many (most?) other countries is in the article's title: The word "sue." In America, aggrieved citizens have the right to correct their government. It's not always easy. It's rarely quick. But it can be done, and it has been done hundreds o…

Many great things about America, I won’t go into.

You can sue the government elsewhere, it is maybe even harder than the US but also an option.

But eg in Europe you have parliamentary and independent, government-funded offices whose job is to look out for such events and protect the citizens without the need for them to sue the state machinery. Like lawsuits it doesn’t always work, but at least the entry threshold is much lower. You just write a substantiated complaint to such office.

For this or other reasons, police and related forces feel more accountable and cautious in dealing with people, and the crime rates don’t seem any worse for it.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#166

Post by asguy »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #87
jtgi8jgfdg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was beaten, punched and kicked by a mob of Antifa. It's all documented on video.

He's well known for doxxing, providing kill lists to AtomWaffen. I don't think that behavior is exactly rewarded in the public square.

> providing kill lists to AtomWaffen.

.. that's a really serious claim. Do you have any sources?

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#167

Post by bleah1000 »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #161
e12e wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's a long list of mostly labeling minor property damage "violence". In a context where there have been some killings (car driving into demonstrations, shootings) - this seems like a clear case of wrong priorities along the lines of: https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-po... Thanks for posting the link, by the way. Very illuminating to the DHS state of mind.

Yeah,very illuminating. It's amazing how everyone who caused property damage was a "violent anarchist."

Have you seen pictures from Portland? It looks like the site of a third-world battle field.

I'm sure it sounds like minor property damage, but when you see what's happening, it's not as minor as you think.

Remember, these are the folks that destroyed the elk statue for some reason. Nobody is really talking about the fact that these riots have been going on for more than a month, so people don't know how bad it is.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#168

Post by mindslight »

koheripbal wrote: post #144
mindslight wrote: post #15

We're at the point where the larger Republican establishment either needs to repudiate and remove this anti-American wannabe dictator, or they're going to find themselves at the guillotine alongside him. Our society cannot take another 6 months of economic destruction, brazen totalitarianism, and weaponized ignorance.

I can't tell if this comment is serious... What makes you think the White House orders these arrests? I would imagine that the local Federal offices are happy to arrest people who attempt to burn down a Federal Court house, and would have done exactly the same under Obama, Clinton, Bush, or Trump.

My comment is genuine, but I can't see how yours could be. These kidnappings are not taking place at the federal courthouse, nor in direct response to attacks on it. By default, federal officers don't drive around in camouflage snatching people off the street.

These highly unusual actions are obviously being ordered by the White House. Trump has been pushing various justifications for how the federal government should have jurisdiction to squash the BLM protests. Cities have wisely come around to deescalating the fighting between their local police forces and protest crowds, but Trump has consistently worked to inflame the situation. This is his latest stunt.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#169

Post by [deleted] »

bleah1000 wrote: post #167
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah,very illuminating. It's amazing how everyone who caused property damage was a "violent anarchist."

Have you seen pictures from Portland? It looks like the site of a third-world battle field. I'm sure it sounds like minor property damage, but when you see what's happening, it's not as minor as you think. Remember, these are the folks that destroyed the elk statue for some reason. Nobody is really talking about the fact that these riots have been going on for more than a month, so people don't know how bad it is.

[deleted]

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#170

Post by fzeroracer »

lostmsu wrote: post #162
krapp wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can buy a patch that says "POLICE" on it and sew it to some fatigues. That's not a legitimate form of identification. There is no law enforcement organization or bureau named "POLICE" which one could petition, interview or sue. Stop being purposely obtuse.

That's a stupid argument. Anyone can buy any easily visible publicly recognizable sign. I fail to see how this badge is insufficient in a potentially aggressive situation.

So let's change the situation then.

If someone was trying to kick in your door wearing generic fatigues and a patch that says 'POLICE' while refusing to identify themselves, would you let them in? I'm assuming that would be sufficient identity for you to agree that they are in fact police and they have a sufficient reason to kick in your door.

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