Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nuclear is not safer than renewables. These statistics are false, they do not include everything involved with running the plants and gathering the ressources. They get repeated every time in these threads here and are refuted every time. Your first article is provided by a pro nuclear propaganda association. It's almost certainly also false. And ignores conveniently how much more unrecycable nuclear waste France was…
"unrecycable nuclear waste France was producing in 2016" Yeah so nuclear waste is recycled in large part. See Mox. But I agree, I wish we'd use FNRs too. Too bad the Green party shut down the first reactor (SuperPhenix) in the 90s. "waste we can not store safely." Did you do your homework? See CIGEO.
Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
161–170 of 256 posts
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
If we (US) hadn't stopped building nuclear in the 80s, and had simply kept building at the same rate, our grid would be (near) zero carbon today . Not several decades from now if we hustle our asses off, today . But that's not what happened. The anti-nuclear team won and we collectively made the responsible decision to fill our atmosphere with CO2 instead. Yay?
This would be great if CO2 was the only waste product of a nuclear plant, but it's not. You not only needed to keep building plants, but also designate proper waste storage sites, which are still up in the air to this day, and some sites like Hanford are utter ecological disasters. It also did not help that the 70s ended with the Three-Mile Island disaster and serious construction flaws being found at Trojan. Then in…
In addition, what is the result of 3 mile island? The word disaster comes with a lot of baggage that I would debate doesn't apply, it was an accident without any fatalities. But... it was a set of lessons and they have been applied throughout the industry. That is forgotten. It did have a huge impact to the industry and was a disaster as far as perception goes. Chernobyl was a case of lets turn this reactor to 11 and disable the safeties. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Fukushima should be remembered. It was when we knew better and ignored expert advice. This seems to be the theme of the 21st century though. But even with Fukushima, it took one of the largest earth quakes ever, causing a very very large tsunami, and then it was still working.... but because the experts where ignored and the wall was shorter than it should have been and, most importantly, the generators were not on higher ground it lost power and was able to melt down. Even with that though, only one person has died, and two had radiation burns, plus there is several km by several km of land that cannot be used right now. The sad part is that this was the focus and not the thousands displaced by the tsunami.
Solar and Window are doing great, they should be used as much as they can be. Hydro is largely tapped out and small systems are not as effective compared to their impact; even with the fact that rivers form lakes and move on their own. So that leaves sources like nuclear, tidal, and a few others related to the earths energy(whether kinetic or heat) Nuclear has the benefit of having the smallest footprint too.
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nuclear safety and waste are among the most serious of issues, but it is disturbingly common and dishonest to present them without comparison to the safety and waste problems of the alternatives and without optimizing for safety per kilowatt. Coal particulates, acidic gasses, and CO2 are awful. Natural gas CO2 is awful. I hardly need to elaborate, yet this is the alternative we chose. It's not just coal that has prob…
No it's not dishonest. Where are the storage facilities? Is Hanford a disaster or not? Were there fundamental quality and safety issues in the 70s(and before) around nuclear facilities? Pointing out that other stuff is "just as bad as nuclear" is not helping the argument for nuclear.
Yucca Mountain was bulldozed by the anti-nuclear faction. Hooray?
> Is Hanford a disaster or not?
Unquestionably.
> Pointing out that other stuff is "just as bad as nuclear" is not helping the argument for nuclear.
That's generally how decision-making works: you weigh the tradeoffs and make the best choice.
Well, that's how it's supposed to work, I suppose. If you refuse, well, nature just punishes you accordingly. In this case, we get an atmosphere full of CO2. Hooray?
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, sorry, that not commercialy viable to get this uranium. > Additionally, France never had to even prospect for uranium ore But this is false. (There is no english link sorry for that). https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/UraMin
> But this is false. (There is no english link sorry for that). https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/UraMin Context! They never had to prospect in France - I thought hat was clear, but apparently it wasn't. Sorry for the confusion. Edit: after reading the article I'm more confused - that's not even a French company - it's Canadian...
This Canadian company got bought by Areva.
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's moving slow, but France does have planning working through how to manage nuclear going forward. Replacment with renewables as studied by the French gov't seems not only promising but cost effective. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-10/french-po...
This article is misleading. You can NOT replace nuclear with wind and solar. Because you can't choose when the sun shines and when the wind blows. Hydro in France is already built-up everywhere it was feasible. There are no more spots to build meaningful hydro power capacity. Too bad since hydro is the only renewable that can really replace the nuclear power plants.
That's what grid energy storage is for. Traditionally this is often implemented with hydro (sometimes even by pumping water up to a high-altitude reservoir during periods of excess power generation). There are many more exotic methods as well - e.g. the crane that stacks concrete blocks, or the train with concrete that goes up and down the hill.
More recently, grid-scale batteries are being installed at increasing scale (e.g. Tesla's Megapack), and the cost efficiency of that solution seems to be improving rapidly.
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do people always forget that coal plants spew radiation into the environment? https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-...
I was already aware. How does pointing this out solve nuclear waste storage issues?
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, that's part of what I was citing. But the people vehemently opposing nuclear power plants, like me, are generally also opposing fossil fuels. So that doesn't change anything.
Maybe you do, but most people "vehemently opposing nuclear power plants" only pay some lip service to fossil fuels. I've yet to see an anti-nuclear activist declaring that Germany and Japan have nothing to be proud of, considering their carbon footprint. Granted I didn't search very hard, but every anti-nuclear opinion piece I've come across praises how "Germany and Japan showed" that it's possible to shut down nucle…
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#168It's weird of the article gives plenty of direct citations from nuclear operators, while at the same time acting like French 40+ year old fission tech doesn't have any issues [0] or sustainability problems, and how the French could dare to shut down one of their first reactors. Particularly in the context that most discussions surrounding nuclear fission power generation lead with "modern designs and reactors being s…
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is overall a net exporter but in winter when there is no wind, Germany rely more on its neighborhood. Average are misleading.
German winters are quite windy, especially near the coast. Solar (photovoltaic) has its maximum around noon, when there is high demand. The irony is that in summer, it has happened in several warm years now that nuclear power plants in France had to shut down - they are cooled by rivers and when the water level becomes too low, they need to shut off to maintain safety and avoid ecological damage. These are the times…
I think it's exactly the opposite: see [1]. It's a increasingly big problem as more renewable sources are deployed. The peak demand happens at mid-evening and morning hours while, as you said, peak production from renewables is around noon. A possible solution is energy storage but, as far as I now, it's not yet common and not always available depending on the location and type of plant.
Re: Why is the Fessenheim 2 nuclear power plant closing in France?
#170There is a pro nuclear power lobby that loves to trivialise toxic radio active waste. They argue that storing it in caves with clear warning signs will deter future generations from accidentally messing about with its content. They forgot historical context can be quickly lost over a few thousand years and assume there will not be a technological dark age in the future. CO2 might well introduce long term damage to th…