How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick • Hacker News Board

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#161

Post by elai » Thu, Mar 31, 2011, 1:14 AM UTC

kgo wrote: post #48

viggity wrote: post #30

I've been overweight my entire life, and honestly, I blame the Surgeon General in the 1980s for telling my mom that feeding me low fat foods (which end up being high carb foods) will make me skinny. Everyone believed this cargo cult "science" and it has had a devastating impact for hundreds of millions of people.

I'm asking this sincerely, but don't people from traditionally healthy Asian countries eat a hell of a lot of rice? That's my first thought every time someone mentions how bad carbs are. But I have trouble finding any non-antecdotal data. I want to believe the obesity problem is more of a portion control thing, for example, when McDonald's opened, did a normal adult actually eat a hamburger and small fries for lunch…

The rice portion is significantly smaller (about as big as your asian hands could carry if they shaped as a bowl) than the typical north american starch portion.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#162

Post by electromagnetic » Thu, Mar 31, 2011, 2:31 AM UTC

OpieCunningham wrote: post #96

electromagnetic wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually yes you can and yes you should. Infants die in third-world countries because of lack of healthcare, but often because of weak immune system and other effects of poor health that children survive from in western countries. If you compare dogs bought from reputable breeders and puppy mills, you can't exclude all the puppies that die in the first year from a puppy mill and get a fair comparison. You can't exclu…

I think you're missing the point. No one is arguing that a high rate of child mortality is not an issue in and of itself. But if you're going to claim that life expectancy in Afghanistan is very low vs. the West, therefore the Western diet is healthier than Afghanistan's, and in the process ignore child mortality as a factor then you're entirely disingenuous. As an example: if you take 2 groups of 10 people, 9 of whi…

Thank you for a lesson in basic averages. You're still completely clueless.

You're attempting to measure health based on diet between two groups. One group regularly receives medical and dental care. One group does not.

I don't care what bat-shit psycho crap you want, because if you find some hillfolk in the US who haven't seen a doctor in their lives, they're going to have a life expectancy in their mid 50's because most of them are likely to die from abscessed teeth or broken legs or a frigging cold.

You're literally comparing dogs to wolves for health. Dogs live in houses and go to vets, and yes get fed shitty food. Wolves live in the wild and face hardships with no access to care and die young.

You can't pick and choose who to factor in and out for health and get a useful result, it's idiotic. Total mortality figures is a better statistic than selected mortality statistic, because infant mortality is a golden example of the total capability of a countries health care. Basically, if you can't afford to wash your hands in alcohol before delivering a baby to make it hygienic, then you're fucked.

I don't care if my diet isn't causing me longevity, I have a doctor. He's called a Cardiac Surgeon and he performs heart surgeries. This is why I live in the west and did not die as a 7 year old of sepsis from a broken leg.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#163

Post by GFischer » Fri, Apr 01, 2011, 3:17 AM UTC

kgo wrote: post #48

viggity wrote: post #30

I've been overweight my entire life, and honestly, I blame the Surgeon General in the 1980s for telling my mom that feeding me low fat foods (which end up being high carb foods) will make me skinny. Everyone believed this cargo cult "science" and it has had a devastating impact for hundreds of millions of people.

I'm asking this sincerely, but don't people from traditionally healthy Asian countries eat a hell of a lot of rice? That's my first thought every time someone mentions how bad carbs are. But I have trouble finding any non-antecdotal data. I want to believe the obesity problem is more of a portion control thing, for example, when McDonald's opened, did a normal adult actually eat a hamburger and small fries for lunch…

National Geographic did a piece some time ago about the average servings at McDonald's and other fast-foods 40 years ago compared to now, but I can't find it, and I fail to Google it (if it is available online, that is).

I can tell you, the portions were significantly smaller in all cases.

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#164

Post by flocu » Fri, Apr 01, 2011, 11:11 AM UTC

ryanfitz wrote: post #21

wmboy wrote: post #11

Once we realize that obesity is (by and large) a modern lifestyle disease caused by needless stress and a diet consisting of mostly fake food perhaps we'll return to eating a whole food diet consisting of real food? e.g. margarine (which has color added to it to make it look yellow, otherwise it'd be gray) is NOT a healthy alternative to butter.

the paleo diet is a growing diet/lifestyle based on eating real foods. If anything else its very interesting to read about. http://freetheanimal.com/ancestral-life-way is a great blog for anyone interested.

2 days ago Kurt Harris posted a very readable article about what paleo is and what it probably isn't.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/p-nu/201103/dietary-mani...

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#165

Post by gopi » Fri, Apr 01, 2011, 3:28 PM UTC

I dont think its western diet, i am orginally from southern india and the number of diabetes there is one amoung the worlds highest. This is mainly due to the traditional vegetarian south indian diet (processed white rice & veg curry)

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#166

Post by gstamp » Fri, Apr 01, 2011, 11:28 PM UTC

wil2k wrote: post #148

Not much time to reply right now, but I really, really recommend this book: The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted and the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss and Long-term Health http://www.amazon.com/China-Study-Comprehensive-Nutrition-Im...

Some counter arguments for those interested.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fal...

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#167

Post by js2 » Sat, Apr 02, 2011, 12:12 AM UTC

xiaoma wrote: post #149

jerf wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Regarding obesity, exercise is far more important than diet." When Gary Taubes surveyed the literature to find the evidence that exercise is useful for losing weight, what he found is that the scientific literature itself proves this statement is either not true or even slightly false. There aren't any studies where exercise has lead to persistent, significant (which I would define as taking someone from clinically…

Gary Taubes is a journalist, not an expert in nutrition. He also has a track record of questionable academic honesty. He's an excellent writer who has been able to cash in on fad diets, but follow his advice at your own risk. http://reason.com/archives/2003/03/01/big-fat-fake

Having read GCBC, that is not at all my impression of Gary Taubes. As well, the piece to which you link is what comes across to me as dishonest, so I was glad to see Taubes' response:

http://reason.com/archives/2003/03/01/an-exercise-in-vitriol...

Re: How Western Diets Are Making The World Sick

#168

Post by OpieCunningham » Sun, Apr 03, 2011, 2:13 AM UTC

electromagnetic wrote: post #162

OpieCunningham wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point. No one is arguing that a high rate of child mortality is not an issue in and of itself. But if you're going to claim that life expectancy in Afghanistan is very low vs. the West, therefore the Western diet is healthier than Afghanistan's, and in the process ignore child mortality as a factor then you're entirely disingenuous. As an example: if you take 2 groups of 10 people, 9 of whi…

Thank you for a lesson in basic averages. You're still completely clueless. You're attempting to measure health based on diet between two groups. One group regularly receives medical and dental care. One group does not. I don't care what bat-shit psycho crap you want, because if you find some hillfolk in the US who haven't seen a doctor in their lives, they're going to have a life expectancy in their mid 50's because…

You're literally comparing dogs to wolves for health. Dogs live in houses and go to vets, and yes get fed shitty food. Wolves live in the wild and face hardships with no access to care and die young.

No, I'm not. Mainly because I'd have needed to use the words "dog" and "wolf" to literally be talking about them. Literally, Joe Biden. But also because I'm not even figuratively speaking of them.

But since you created the analogy:

The "wolves" that don't die young live far longer than the "dogs" that don't die young due to the "wolves" better diet and in spite of the "dogs" having access to vets and living in houses.

When you're comparing the health of adults you can't use information pertaining to the health of children. The factor is itself defined in the equation.