EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation • Hacker News Board

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#161

Post by dang » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 4:03 AM UTC

netsharc wrote: post #29

godsplan1 wrote: post #25

> On Jun 24th 2020: While introducing the preliminary report, Pakistan's Aviation Minister stated, that both flight crew and ATC failed to follow procedures, the pilots discussed Coronavirus and were not focussed on their piloting tasks, when ATC advised about altitude the crew replied they would manage it and again discussed Coronavirus. The crew was overconfident and not focussed. The captain's last three words wer…

I get the impression the last sentence is written (and you copy-pasted) with a bit of sneer towards their religion; in case it is, how many videos have we seen of Americans watching disaster unfolding and repeatedly saying "Ehmagerd, ehmagerd, ehmagerd"? Your account is 2 minutes older than this post... do we need to worry?

Responding to religious flamewar with nationalistic flamewar helps nothing. Please don't.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#162

Post by qtplatypus » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:22 AM UTC

oska wrote: post #76

andybak wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see how that might be seen as a dog whistle.

The concept of 'dog whistling' is bogus. You can only hold people accountable for what they say , not what you think they might be 'signalling'.

People make use of Steganography all the time. The practice of using associations to communicate different messages to two groups is not at all exterordany

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#163

Post by occamrazor » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 6:50 AM UTC

Bobbcatt wrote: post #113

Jdam wrote: post #60

If this doesn't apply to the UK as well, it is not enough. I would like to see a flyover ban as well, as PIA flies through the EU to the UK. I'm following the aviation industry closely and there are plenty of reports every now and then where PIA flights don't respond on radio anymore, triggering fighter intercepts. It is assumed that those pilots are oftentimes either sleeping or just don't bother because of their eg…

>I don't want to have PIA planes crashing into others or falling on my head. Even with sleeping pilots, you still are order of magnitude more likely to die by a car than by a plane.

And doubly so if your concern is a plane falling on you from the sky.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#164

Post by occamrazor » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 6:51 AM UTC

iso1210 wrote: post #150

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real danger is to passengers of the plane. It is very rare for a plane crash to kill anyone on the ground. Noth of earth surface is not cities, its water/farmland/etc

More common than you'd think as most crashes are on takeoff or landing, which tend to be in more built up areas.

We are discussing high altitude flyovers here.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#165

Post by occamrazor » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 7:09 AM UTC

vinay427 wrote: post #19

robin_reala wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know already. A perennial topic of annoyance for US immigrants in Sweden is that their US licence is only valid for a year here, then they have to retake their test (unlike immigrants from the EU who get to convert theirs automatically).

I think the OP was referring to Pakistan. More problematic in this respect are the UN accords that allow people from virtually any country to drive while visiting any other country, so you can have people from poorly licensed countries driving in a place where they're unfamiliar with the road system, language, etc. The EU/EEA reciprocity is due to EU regulations, not the assumption that every EU country has better dr…

> The EU/EEA reciprocity is due to EU regulations, not the assumption that every EU country has better driving license standards than every other country.

The EU reciprocity is based on a common binding framework for driving exams, with common minimal requirements, and Switzerland adheres to it via bilateral agreements.

The requirement to exchange the license is just an administrative one, there is no theory or driving test for EU and EFTA nationals (there is a vision test though).

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#166

Post by mhh__ » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 7:15 AM UTC

vageli wrote: post #127

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think this nitpicking achieves anything, his overall point stands - we have hundreds of military jets and pilots with fuck all to do (fortunately). How many intercepts are there, one every few months? It makes no material difference against the backdrop of training and eqipment used in a regular business as usual.

> I dont think this nitpicking achieves anything, his overall point stands - we have hundreds of military jets and pilots with fuck all to do (fortunately). How many intercepts are there, one every few months? It makes no material difference against the backdrop of training and eqipment used in a regular business as usual. Maybe stores should stop hiring security guards in towns where the police don't have much to do…

If police had the same kind of rigorous training and process the military does this mess in the USA probably wouldn't have happened.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#167

Post by occamrazor » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 7:16 AM UTC

ohlookabird wrote: post #86

AdrianB1 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same situation in other places, even in Europe. In Romania not only that in small cities this is the only way to get a permit, even if you drive well, but we have people that cannot read but having a driver license. Corruption is a "well known secret" in every country in the world.

But how does this work in practice? I don't think I ever had to bribe someone. Is it like "Here these $5 are for you!" or you just forget $5 on the dashboard? I can't really picture these situations.

The cops know how to ask!

I had a couple of experiences in post-war Bosnia. A policeman would pull you aside for “speeding” and ask for 50 Marks (they had convertible Deutschmark as currency at the time). After some haggling they would agree to a 5 Marks reduced fine and give you a “receipt” from a standard notebook.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#168

Post by _-___________-_ » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 11:17 AM UTC

FabHK wrote: post #104

_-___________-_ wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"ATC should have ordered a go around" implies some authority that is not there. The commander (captain) has final responsibility for the safety of the aircraft. ATC effectively has an advisory role; they issue instructions rather than orders and the commander can ignore any ATC instruction if they believe it to be necessary for the safe performance of the flight.

What do you mean? If I approach KORD in my Cessna 172 (as I've done), and ATC instructs me to go around, I would. Of course the pilot is the ultimate authority and can deviate from any instruction in an emergency, but ATC can, in my understanding, instruct an aircraft to go around for any number of reasons that the pilot of the aircraft is not privy to. In this case, according to the preliminary report, `“Karachi App…

Yes, they can instruct. They don't issue orders, though. In your example, as the commander of your aircraft, if you felt that going around would compromise the safety of your flight (unlikely, but you can imagine some scenarios), you can and should disregard the instruction.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#169

Post by goatinaboat » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 11:29 AM UTC

Playing devils advocate but if PIA pilots really are that bad why wasn’t the accreditation of the certifying authorities withdrawn long ago? What I mean is why didn’t this show up before in the accident statistics? Or were the Western aviation authorities turning a blind eye to it and their hands are now forced by this public revelation?

If civil engineers in a particular country were all fraudulent and buildings were collapsing that would surely be noticed. Or fraudulent surgeons and people dying.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#170

Post by FabHK » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

_-___________-_ wrote: post #168

FabHK wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? If I approach KORD in my Cessna 172 (as I've done), and ATC instructs me to go around, I would. Of course the pilot is the ultimate authority and can deviate from any instruction in an emergency, but ATC can, in my understanding, instruct an aircraft to go around for any number of reasons that the pilot of the aircraft is not privy to. In this case, according to the preliminary report, `“Karachi App…

Yes, they can instruct . They don't issue orders , though. In your example, as the commander of your aircraft, if you felt that going around would compromise the safety of your flight (unlikely, but you can imagine some scenarios), you can and should disregard the instruction.

I think we're on the same page.

In the case here, approach instructed them to abort the approach, and the pilots should have. Well, they paid the ultimate price for their mistakes, taking many people with them.