Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society • Hacker News Board

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#161

Post by Broken_Hippo » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 6:10 PM UTC

Noos wrote: post #116

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be missing something. Making art -some sorts more than others - simply requires equipment and stuff. I know this. I make art. I probably have more than some people because I work with different media: Watercolors, acrylics, ink, and so on. I'm prolific, and it all gets used. Just not all at once, you see. This doesn't jive with the folks that brag about minimizing possessions - because it requires s…

I think there's something even more than requiring equipment. Making art requires waste. You cannot be minimalist in creating, you have to be free with paper, paint and ink. The style can be minimalist, but over time you will end up with a library of sketchbooks and have probably burned through tons of supplies.

I do have all of that stuff myself. I figured that was covered by 'having supplies one uses'. It is hard to use up all the paint one makes: Watercolor and gouache lend themselves to not wasting paint, though, as you can reuse dried paint.

I suppose folks can give away their pictures, but I'd quickly run out of folks to give away to - hence my corner of finished art :)

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#162

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 7:58 PM UTC

balfirevic wrote: post #74

nsoonhui wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Minimalism is luxury. You know you could replace whatever you just threw out No it's no, you grossly misunderstand the fundamentals of minimalism. It's make do with whatever you have, and to be content with less, including less money, less possessions, less prestige and less of everything. It's accepting the degradation of social status. "Going back to parents after selling everything and travelling around the worl…

> _that's_ minimalism I must have missed it, who is in charge of the definition of minimalism?

[deleted]

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#163

Post by closeparen » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 8:00 PM UTC

monadic2 wrote: post #138

closeparen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your possessions all have practical utility, you are already a hardcore minimalist. No one should begrudge you a well-stocked and well-used workshop. That’s not what the minimalist message is supposed to be about. It’s the stuff accumulated carelessly, just because you could. Decorative doo-dads, outfits worn once, toys from kids long since grown, furniture retained out of a sense of duty. The suburban middle-clas…

> If your possessions all have practical utility, This seems tautological or uselessly subjective. What is a possession without practical value? You seem to have talked yourself out of seeing the value in possessions you own. Perhaps you are simply anxious. How this attitude began to be associated with the minimalist design movement I have no clue.

If that seems tautological, you're already bought in. For others it is very much not.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#164

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 8:01 PM UTC

dgreensp wrote: post #135

KonMari has nothing to do with visual brand, it’s about living authentically free of things you don’t like. It’s like the life philosophy of not spending time around friends who don’t spark joy in you. And then someone comes along and says, “I see, it’s about spending less time around people, in order to look cool!” No, that’s just your shallow, ego-based take on it. “Not mine, that’s totally what people are doing. I…

There is merit in the criticism, especially when the "founder" now has a shop to sell items...

https://shop.konmari.com/

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#165

Post by closeparen » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 8:03 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #85

closeparen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your possessions all have practical utility, you are already a hardcore minimalist. No one should begrudge you a well-stocked and well-used workshop. That’s not what the minimalist message is supposed to be about. It’s the stuff accumulated carelessly, just because you could. Decorative doo-dads, outfits worn once, toys from kids long since grown, furniture retained out of a sense of duty. The suburban middle-clas…

>If your possessions all have practical utility, you are already a hardcore minimalist. The problem is that "practical utility" isn't always obvious. I have boxes and boxes of components and other oddments that collectively form a useful library, but I have no way of predicting which specific oddments will be useful in future. Any given item is currently useless, but might become extremely useful at some indeterminab…

Sure, but a realistic possibility of a future need for the item is already a pretty strong reason. There are a great many items in America's basements and self-storage units that don't even have that.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#166

Post by majewsky » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 9:34 PM UTC

monadic2 wrote: post #138

closeparen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your possessions all have practical utility, you are already a hardcore minimalist. No one should begrudge you a well-stocked and well-used workshop. That’s not what the minimalist message is supposed to be about. It’s the stuff accumulated carelessly, just because you could. Decorative doo-dads, outfits worn once, toys from kids long since grown, furniture retained out of a sense of duty. The suburban middle-clas…

> If your possessions all have practical utility, This seems tautological or uselessly subjective. What is a possession without practical value? You seem to have talked yourself out of seeing the value in possessions you own. Perhaps you are simply anxious. How this attitude began to be associated with the minimalist design movement I have no clue.

> What is a possession without practical value?

Token gifts that have been gifts for the sake of gifting something.

Most things in a souvenir store.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#167

Post by lmm » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 10:47 PM UTC

Noos wrote: post #116

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be missing something. Making art -some sorts more than others - simply requires equipment and stuff. I know this. I make art. I probably have more than some people because I work with different media: Watercolors, acrylics, ink, and so on. I'm prolific, and it all gets used. Just not all at once, you see. This doesn't jive with the folks that brag about minimizing possessions - because it requires s…

I think there's something even more than requiring equipment. Making art requires waste. You cannot be minimalist in creating, you have to be free with paper, paint and ink. The style can be minimalist, but over time you will end up with a library of sketchbooks and have probably burned through tons of supplies.

That's actually fine though. You don't regard consumable supplies as possessions any more than you count the food you're about to eat as a possession. Minimalism is very compatible with waste - indeed I'd say it's probably more wasteful than not.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#168

Post by zeckalpha » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 11:04 PM UTC

Xcelerate wrote: post #55

> Minimalism is tiny houses, floor-to-ceiling glass condos I always see this criticism and don’t understand it. I’ve been going on ever since I was a 10 year old kid in the 90s (well before “minimalism” was trendy) about how one day I wanted a tiny, well-designed house with giant floor-to-ceiling glass windows. I think it’s natural to enjoy sunlight, so I’m not sure what the article is suggesting—that people should w…

Minimalism is contentment with what you have. Wanting something you don’t have does not make one minimal.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#169

Post by JackPoach » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 6:19 AM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #124

JackPoach wrote: post #77

As COVID-19 hits, people understand Taleb's idea about critical importance of multiple redundancies. These are clearly incompatible with minimalism. To be alive is more important than to be a minimalist in the end.

I don't see how that's the case. If multiple redundancies are a necessity, then having them doesn't go against the minimalist lifestyle. Minimalism doesn't mean that you stick to only have one of everything, although it can mean that to an individual minimalist depending on their goals, perhaps such as traveling light. There's no definition of minimalism that says you should have an insufficient supply of anything.

Here's a real life example. Suppose, you are a true minimalist and all you have is a backpack with 35 items. You used to make all your money blogging about travel. Your income is now ZERO. What do you do? Now, compare that to a different person who, let's say, has a garage. With lots an lots of tools that he or she can do to create something useful. Or a boat that he or she can live on, catch fish, etc. Now having those items is quite beneficial. Please understand that I am all for minimalism from the consumer point of view, but having lived in a lot of poor countries and can say that US-based minimalist driving force is DEBT. People simply can't afford to buy housing and they are crushed by student debts or debts of other kinds. So they adapt to a certain life style. Which is fine and dandy, but on the other hand instead of going after the root of the problem, you are totally avoiding it on a country-wide scale.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#170

Post by arsenico » Mon, Apr 06, 2020, 8:21 AM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #4

Two ideas which often I encounter together yet I have grown to find incompatible are self reliance and minimalism. If you wish to become more self reliant i.e. more able to handle for yourself rather than through another's labor the impositions you create in the world, you will find yourself needing to masters, access and eventual own many more tools and material. My father, a man capable of building or repairing alm…

Wow! This is a super strong and a super solid observation. Come to any small bikeshop, and you will find it packed with all kinds of parts - some of which may be laying there forever. But you will most likely come out of the shop with your very specific make and model of bike fixed. Come to a clean and seemingly well-organised and neat bike shop belonging to a corporation, and expect a turnaround time of two weeks to order your specific parts from the producer and ship them. So, indeed, for an ability to rely on the service - be prepared to stock up on things, which you may never ever need.