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Living without a SIM card

habd.as

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Re: Living without a SIM card

#161

Post by jhallenworld »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #152
Joeri wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks in the US and EU are required to have the identity on file for all bank accounts (ostensibly to combat terrorism), so sharing your phone number with them shouldn’t change the level of privacy. If it is cost people are worried about they can get a prepaid card and never use it except to receive sms. That’s effectively free. Combined with the push to get rid of anonymous accounts and phone numbers there has also…

Since the inevitable conclusion is impossibility of being anonymous, I think we should push to ensure full transparency for all. Otherwise, it ends badly for those not in power.

This was John Brunner's solution in Shockwave Rider. So does it work for preventing scammers and telemarketers? I guess it does since you would know who is calling you.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#162

Post by jowsie »

Joeri wrote: post #145
chewz wrote: post #129

I envy the OP. Unfortunately since September 2019 living without SIM card became (practically) illegal in EU. > most online payments above €30 to go through an extra level of verification such as entering a code received via a text message. [2] Most banks unwisely chosen SMS as Strong Customer Authentication providing little choice to customers. https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/payment-services-psd-2-directi... [2] http…

Banks in the US and EU are required to have the identity on file for all bank accounts (ostensibly to combat terrorism), so sharing your phone number with them shouldn’t change the level of privacy. If it is cost people are worried about they can get a prepaid card and never use it except to receive sms. That’s effectively free. Combined with the push to get rid of anonymous accounts and phone numbers there has also…

I'm not sure how common it is, but in the UK I've known people who have been forced to use their 'free' SIM or risk having the number revoked and the SIM disabled.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#163

Post by grecy »

Five years ago I quit my Software Engineering job, and I got rid of my dumb phone. I've not had a SIM since. My sister gave me her ~4 year old HTC One phone, which I take out and power on about once a month to use as an alarm or use google authentication or some such.

I'm a person who is a little addicted to the internet, so for me I think of it like an alcoholic not walking into bars - I'd be that guy constantly reaching for my phone in social situations, so it's simply better if I avoid the temptation and just don't have one.

A few thoughts:

- Yes, I occasionally ask humans for directions. It's actually kind of novel and always starts a conversation.

- I had to talk to my bank for an hour to let me use email as my verification option. Works fine now.

- I have wifi at home, so I have tons of contact with my family using my laptop and video chat, messenger, etc. I spend more than enough time online.

- I have a large social media presence, but it never 'bothers' me. I do it for 15 minutes a day on my laptop, then I put it away and I never get a single notification during the day.

- I thoroughly enjoy sitting in a bar or other social setting and looking around the table to see who wants to make eye contact and talk vs. who is staring at their phone. Many times I'm the only person at a large table not using a phone.

- Sometimes I miss out on social stuff because friends are organizing on whatsapp or even messenger an I don't open my laptop so I don't see it. I honestly think this wouldn't change if I had a phone, because I'd turn off notifications and only look at it a few times a day.

- I've saved a lot of money over the years

- It certainly is inconvenient at times, and I'm currently flirting with the idea of getting a SIM for the old HTC so I can take creit card payments. So be it. I probably won't install any apps.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#164

Post by noirbot »

xkemp wrote: post #110
lottin wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He will be judged for his actions - becoming a burden to other people by choice

This thread is insane... How did we go from someone borrowing others' phone on occasion to these ideas of Social Darwinism? At this rate, someone is going to suggest euthanasia within two more comments tops. For most people, lending their phone won't even incur marginal costs considering the trend towards flat rates. If you find yourself being annoyed by such situations, note that these feelings are bound to make you…

I always find this sort of "Just don't have your mind work like that then." response to be almost completely inane motivational poster sloganeering. If I could choose what annoys me, I'd love to just not pick anything. I'd love to have the sort of self-control to not feel anything that would make me miserable, and maybe you've reached that point of self-consciousness, but that's not just a switch people can flip. It's the same family of responses as telling someone to just "not be depressed by your situation anymore and be happy with what you have"

In addition, we're not talking here about how to specifically deal with one person. I've had plenty of friends with annoying habits, and I have managed to mostly ignore their behavior and just live my life. What we're discussing is the more general case - is it ethical to impose this sort of thing on someone else without their agreement/consent. I can both think that my old roommates should have cleaned the kitchen more as a matter of cleanliness and fairness AND have gotten to the point where it didn't bother me that much that I had to clean for them. My ability to not be bothered by it, and to put my friendship ahead of specific annoyances doesn't excuse behavior that makes doing so harder for their selfish reasons.

"Judging people for their actions" isn't the same as shunning them or wanting them dead. Any sort of anti-social behavior that asks for things from other people is going to trigger some sort of judgement or response. Often it will just be ignoring it or helping the person out, and that's fine, but that's part of the calculus of choosing it. You've decided the social cost of asking for other peoples phones is worth the personal moral/ethical/security gains of not having one yourself. Depending on how you approach it and how much you mitigate the asks of others will determine how people judge you on it.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#166

Post by noirbot »

neiman wrote: post #57
njitbew wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sister’s former boyfriend used to carry a phone without a SIM. His mom ended up calling my sister or our landline to check up on her son. It was annoying AF. Feel free to live off the grid, but please make sure you don’t leech off of those around you.

> His mom ended up calling my sister or our landline to check up on her son. It was annoying AF. What you call "annoying AF" was reality for many many years, and yet people were not constantly annoyed..

I remember plenty of annoyance in those days! My friends' families being on the phone for hours and making it impossible to reach them. Having to get off the internet so someone could make a call. Having whole systems to make sure the people got important messages in a timely manner whenever they got home. Having every call need to take place in a central room of your house where you were usually in the way of other people. Having to make sure someone was near the phone/in the house if you were expecting a call.

It's not a constant annoyance, but if anything there were more annoyances in the 90's around phones than having people call me to speak to my sibling.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#167

Post by neiman »

Spooky23 wrote: post #120
neiman wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His mom ended up calling my sister or our landline to check up on her son. It was annoying AF. What you call "annoying AF" was reality for many many years, and yet people were not constantly annoyed..

It was a different time. The cost of communication is near zero, so if you can’t be bothered, people get annoyed.

I just don't think most "people get annoyed" by such things, definitely not "annoyed AF", besides some very impatient people who'll always find this or other reasons to be annoyed.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#168

Post by hilbert42 »

My smartphones NEVER have SIM cards in them—as I'm not that stupid so as to become just another easy target of surveillance capitalism! Instead, they connect by Wi-Fi to external portable routers that do have SIMs installed in them. As such, these phones can connect to the internet but cannot be used be used to make telephone calls. Thus, there cannot be any cross-reference between my actual telephone number and my internet activity.

In addition, my smartphones use LineageOS without any Google Apps (GApps) installed and their browsers always have JavaScript disabled. Right, I have absolutely no need for social media, Facebook etc, and I never use any of Google's services such as Gmail—except perhaps search via an anonymous metasearch engines such as DuckDuckGo.

So how do I actually communicate? I use a separate dumb phone that has no internet access.

Oh, BTW, I never order stuff online via a smartphone, nor do I use smartphones for email.

So, am I a Luddite? Definitely not, I've always been a high tech worker, I was an early adopter of mobile phone technology, and I had one of Motorola's "bricks" the moment they came on the market decades ago. Moreover, if you saw the complex configurations of my smartphones and the ways they have been rooted (with the latest Magisk super-user software, LineageOS and firewall configurations to stop app software phoning home) then you'd realize I'm more a mobile communications platform than a person with a smartphone).

You may well ask why do I go to such lengths. It's principle really: as I see it, when I bought my first Motorola "brick" the telephone service was essentially anonymous with the option of users being listed in the telephone directory. Since then governments have deregulated and sold out our phone systems to Big Tech without any of us users ever having had a say in the matter—the damn hide of them! Nowadays, not only has Big Tech (Google, Facebook, Microsoft etc.) usurped our internet but they've also fucked our phone networks by actually integrating their corporations' businesses into our telephone systems—and they've essentially done so without anyone's permission.

Re: Living without a SIM card

#169

Post by mavhc »

hdkwowjdj wrote: post #52
Vinnl wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really hard to do. I don't live off the grid by any means - there's a million ways to contact me, e.g. text message, calling, Signal messages, emails, etc. However, I don't use Whatsapp in a country where the vast majority of people does. I'm fine with missing things if people don't feel like using any of the methods I have to get in touch with me. However, instead of either not bothering or using one of the…

It's a social cost question, I guess. Your signal: I don't care enough about our communication to use WhatsApp, because of reasons that are obscure to 99% outside a tech community. Similarly, they don't bother to reach out to you on other communication channels, because they don't bother enough. The important thing to understand is, from your communication partners point of view, you create a burden without reason, s…

One needs to work on explaining the reasoning to the others in one's group, and providing tech support so they too can embrace the freedoms one enjoys

Re: Living without a SIM card

#170

Post by jhabdas »

hu3 wrote: post #116
xkemp wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread is insane... How did we go from someone borrowing others' phone on occasion to these ideas of Social Darwinism? At this rate, someone is going to suggest euthanasia within two more comments tops. For most people, lending their phone won't even incur marginal costs considering the trend towards flat rates. If you find yourself being annoyed by such situations, note that these feelings are bound to make you…

Lending the phone to someone who is in need for some other reason is fine. Lending the phone to someone who doesn't want to carry one even knowing they will need it? Not fine. That person has little respect to others if they think they can't be bothered carrying a phone but everyone else should lend theirs when needed. Not to mention modern phones are very personal. Our entire lives is there.

Correction. Your life is there.
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