The last time I looked at this data (lifetime earnings) the difference was close to $1M on average for men and substantially lower for women. The opportunity cost of going to college is about 1/5 of that difference if you pay up front but substantially more if you take out loans. Here’s another thought that’s not discussed in any of the studies: what’s the impact of someone attending college later in life? Say in late 20s? I’d argue that the degree has greater impact on remaining future income under that scenario.
Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
161–170 of 360 posts
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My plumber wont show up for a 30 minute $300 job. You brought up a 30 minute job. So I shared what it costs for me for a 30 minute (or more) job. And that it’s easy to get someone to come quickly for such a job. I’m saying that if the problem can be solved in an hour, it’s $95. This is called a “service call.” Basically coming out and fixing what can be fixed without buying parts. Any extra labor would cost more. T…
You are right. I can't get home depot to throw something off the truck for less than $200 broken. (And deny it showed up). So, where you are, where you live, I envy it. I imagine a world of nice plumbers and helper people. Canada????
Don't use services with a "name" and multiple trucks that have a bunch of employees doing work under their umbrella along with a staffed office. Search for independent contractors who do their own work. And don't do what other people in this thread are doing by assuming that plumbers and other tradesmen are making big bucks because your bill is large. The umbrella companies charge a fortune and the actual workers make jack. The workers do it so they don't have to be bothered with the business end of things. I use independent contractors who know what they're doing, don't do more work than what is needed, and charge reasonable fees. I live in an average small town in the US. And yes: our main contractor is a nice young guy who actually loves helping old people who've been shafted by those big companies.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#163One thing I don't see talked about a lot is the risk involved in going to college. All the frequently-cited studies about college look at the incomes of college graduates versus the incomes of non-college graduates, and then compare that to the cost of education, and that generally looks fairly positive. But of students who enroll in 4-year programs, only 60% graduate within 6 years[1]. For these students, college ha…
Or they got a job before graduating. Tech companies actively hire people from universities, those 40% are not inherently negative.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#164I have a degree from a no-name university in New Zealand. I'd do it again for a few pragmatic reasons. 1: Lots of companies will reject you on sight without a degree. I don't think it's a good thing, but it is reality. 2: With a degree your ability to move overseas dramatically improves. I moved to America after graduating. I flat out couldn't have done that without a degree. Points based systems immigration systems…
For knowledge workers who could have begun a similar career without college, the cost of the degree should also include the money they would have made by working 4 additional years at the end of their career (probably one of the highest points?)
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Look, I'm studying undergrad philosophy...Am I getting into debt? A fair bit.. Is it worth the trade off? I certainly think so. Will I say that five years after I graduate? Not sure but most likely. Spoiler. Been there, done that. Unless you're at an Ivy, if you're majoring in philosophy, you'll not think it was worth it in five years. My sin was Classics, but similar outcome. Assuming you're on HN because you're t…
Thank you for the input. It's interesting, and hey, it might be the case down the road. But my main philosophy behind my seemingly naive post is this: I don't mind what happens. I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter what is but how you think about what is that matters. Edit: I saw your edit, and again, thank you for your input. I would just like to note that I'll be graduating with ~12k in debt - I went to a comm…
"I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter what is but how you think about what is that matters."
That's a false dichotomy that will be difficult to fully adhere to when you spend your next decades as an adult. Yes, perspective matters; a LOT. But "what is" and "what was" can matter a lot too. Imagining that you can just think your way out of hard spots can lead to complacency about the choices that you make. Keeping a positive perspective can involve an enormous amount of mental effort that may have been mitigated by better choices.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
What other terms should be included? I can think of a few: * Life experience * Knowledge gained * Friends made But what would you add?
Those three categories are pretty broad and essentially cover everything, but my own personal addition would be: becoming aware of "unknown unknowns". A proper university education exposes you to knowledge and worldviews that you previously had no idea even existed. This is the fundamental problem with self-education: you tend to get stuck in local loops based on your current interests, motivations and knowledge. Sur…
Agree with the unknown-unknowns, the problem is (at least from my pov) that University nowadays mostly familiarizes you with unknown-unknowns that are kind of boring, i.e. stuff that will potentially bring you (the University atendee) financial and societal returns further down the road (I get why they do that, I’m not criticizing them for it, just exposing what I think happens).
Again, from my pov most of the interesting and not-boring stuff that can be studied does not have that many financial or societal benefits further down the road, and as such self-education seems one of the few ways of gaining knowledge about that stuff.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even then, depending on your speciality the economic return from a PhD is iffy since you're losing 5+ years of industry wages and experience.
Few people pursuing PhDs are doing so to maximize earning potential. Disregarding the mental toll of a PhD (one problem being that too many people want to be paid to think than there are available positions), I totally disagree with the parent poster's claim that graduate school is a rip-off. Just being in an an academic environment, being able to take classes, & studying around really smart people and doing research…
> Just being in an an academic environment, being able to take classes, & studying around really smart people and doing research at the highest academic level is a really great experience & makes the stress worth it.
I guess your mileage may vary. The best description I've heard about grad school is that it's a self induced neurosis. That was certainly my experience at the time I did it.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#168A person in our family is a specialized nurse. Two years of school, then some more training. $60hr any hour they "wish" to work. Saturdays/Sundays are $90hr, so is any hour after 8 hours. The demand is so high he just rejects work. If he wants to work in American Samoa or Miami: hired. I hired a person to install a garage door. $900 for an hour of work. My plumber wont show up for a 30 minute $300 job. I will call ag…
$60 or even $90/hour isn’t that great if its all 1099 income. It isn’t bad either, but the extra payroll taxes and the need to buy an individual plan (if your partner doesn’t get you into a group plan) make it pretty normal.
In this specific case, hospitals do tend to offer good health care plans.
Further I don't believe it is possible for a hospital with all its specialized equipment to 1099 its nurses (doesn't pass the IRS '20 questions' test on contracting).
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#169I wonder if HN is a good place to discuss this, because we have a pretty niche group of ppl here.
A big chunk of the HN crowd seems to be self-taught highly intelligent and highly motivated young guys who as a result became astronomically good in their craft. For those people, potential employers will go out of their way and bend their own corporate hiring rules to get the no-degree candidate past HR.
And then there's the normal people working normal jobs. For those, not having a degree will immediately disqualify them from 50%+ of the available job openings. But this crowd is only marginally represented on HN.
Since it's like the last thing where young people need to be disciplined, I'm sure many companies will treat a degree more like a proof that you're reliable enough than like the additional education that it was supposed to be.
That also explains why "degree" has become a HR checkbox where nobody cares about the specific skills that you supposedly learned.
So the correct question is: How do you prove your reliability (by getting a degree) in the cheapest way possible?
As for grad school, that's really only for people who are idealistic and value research higher than job security or having enough money to feed a family.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
UBI would just feed directly into rents because that's how prices are set. UBI would require land value tax to ensure the public value is capture for public spending. UBI alone is a land speculator wet dream and Yang is totally wrong to be pushing it without LVT. Yes in the middle of nowhere it can help, but most people are in cities and rents will rise there to current rent + UBI amount.
Yang is willing to adjust policy positions if the data supports it. If property prices are being raised due to UBI, then I'm sure he'd support something like LVT. That's the difference with Yang. He's the most data-driven politician I've ever seen. Other politicians seem mostly ideological, and I don't think they'd adjust their policies even in the face of overwhelming data it's not working. Like if Warren used Antit…
I can't know how Warren would adapt her beliefs in the face of contradictory data in the future, but she's done that in the past [0]. She believed in a self-correcting and fair market that would be harmed by many regulations, but then she did a study of bankruptcy claims. The results contradicted what she expected to find, and she changed her beliefs instead of her interpretation of the data.
[0] https://www.npr.org/2019/12/10/786314251/elizabeth-warrens-j...