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GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

wsj.com

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Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#161

Post by jedberg »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #129
jedberg wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the manufacturers don't seem to aim for the single car household in America. I guess they assume most of us either live in the burbs and have two cars or live in the city and have no cars. The truth is where I live I'm just too far to have single car. Most of the time we only need one car, but we have just enough cases of my wife and I needing to go two different places that it doesn't make sense to rent or Uber…

What's wrong with the Pacifica Hybrid? The Chrysler reputation?

I don't want a hybrid I want a plug-in or all electric. Also, yeah, the reputation of repairs on the Chrysler. It was considered by eventually we chose the all gas Odyssey for now.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#162

Post by jedberg »

gwbas1c wrote: post #155
jedberg wrote: post #58

I'm trying to replace my 2012 SUV with another SUV. I've been looking all over for a plug in hybrid SUV, and there aren't any good ones. I want the plug in hybrid because 95% of the time we do less than 30 miles locally, but once in a while we drive a couple hundred. I would be fine with an all electric SUV with a decent range, but those don't exist either. The model X is not sufficient, and is also terrible for ever…

What don't you like about the Mitsubishi Outlander? (For me, I needed 3 rows, so we just went with the Pacifica Hybrid. Handles well in snow even though it's just a front wheel drive minivan.)

> What don't you like about the Mitsubishi Outlander?

Hadn't heard about it until today. :)

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#163

Post by gwbas1c »

sgt101 wrote: post #50

I need a eV for a 120mile round trip commute - what's my best bet?

FYI: If you're in cold weather, assume that you can loose 40% of range on the coldest day of the year. Thus, when it's 20 degrees, the 120 mile trip will take 200 miles of range.

Furthermore, you need a bit of a safety buffer, because you shouldn't plan to drive an EV to 0% everyday, so if you plan on driving in cold weather, you should have about 240 miles of range.

FWIW: My wife and I had some very close calls in our 2014 Leaf. (EPA rated for 80ish miles) One 40 mile round trip on a 10 degree New Years Eve nearly left us with a dead battery.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#164

Post by zepearl »

Someone1234 wrote: post #2

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…

I have just noticed that the Volvo V60 twin-engine (hybrid) is not listed on their US nor UK sub-websites - I wonder why...? (it is listed e.g. on their Swiss and German sub-sites)

https://www.volvocars.com

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#165

Post by dsr_ »

It's always struck me as weird that they aren't producing hybrids in the vehicles that can most benefit from them: vans, pickups, trucks and tractors.

All of these are vehicles with a focus on power and range that would benefit from the torque and simplicity of electric motors, and could easily absorb the weight penalty of a motor-generator and fuel versus more batteries. The people who buy these for functional reasons would appreciate the long range, easy refueling, and reduced maintenance costs.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#166

Post by oakesm9 »

spenrose wrote: post #117
cjensen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Used Nissan Leafs are unusually cheap. Generally around $12-14K from Carmax. Yes the battery is already a bit worn out, but the price cut is very worth it.

FWIW, my 2015 Leaf still goes 90 miles on a charge.

How does that compare to when it was new?

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#167

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

kevin_b_er wrote: post #71
throw0101a wrote: post #26

My parents' house does not have a garage or a driveway, how exactly will the only-full-EV future work for them? Where are they supposed to charge?

Your replies are mostly hostile, sadly. The electric vehicle "future" has yet to identify how to handle this. The charging infrastructure is incredibly weak unless you have a garage with a charger installed. A lot of people rent or have a small plot of land w/o a garage and they park on the street. The public charging infrastructure outside of California cities is weak. There are very few fast chargers, and the elect…

But isn't this pretty obviously identifiable as a "chicken and egg" problem? You say "The electric vehicle "future" has yet to identify how to handle this", but I totally disagree. In Austin it costs $4.17 a month for unlimited charging at public charging stations, and there are a lot of them: https://austinenergy.com/ae/green-power/plug-in-austin/charg....

It's not hard to imagine that if the number of EVs goes to a very sizable share of all vehicles, instead of the low single digits that it is now, that the number of charging stations would explode.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#168

Post by gwbas1c »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #159
gwbas1c wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (I don't consider the Volt a PHEV, btw, but a range extended electric vehicle. It is the only "plugin hybrid" on the market that can operate purely electric without using the gas engine. And even when the gas engine kicks in, it performs like an EV.) Not true at all: Prius prime, Pacifica Hybrid can all run on the battery without the engine. I can get 30 miles on my Pacifica hybrid without the engine turning on, I…

No, you are not telling the whole picture. Those cars cannot run 100% on the battery, because the moment you hit the accelerator hard ICE kicks in. If you're gentle on the accelerator or avoid high speeds on the highway, yes, you can avoid the gas engine. But you have to work for it. It's almost impossible to drive those vehicles for extended periods of time without using the gas engine. The Volt is designed explicit…

> or avoid high speeds on the highway

I constantly drive 75mph without ever using the engine. I even merge on extremely steep inclines without ever using the engine.

Yes, it turns on for hard acceleration, but that's not the kind of thing you need to do in day-to-day driving.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#169

Post by gwbas1c »

sandworm101 wrote: post #124
gwbas1c wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point: There's basically a point sometime in the 2020s when an electric vehicle becomes cheaper than a gas car. We just don't know that date yet. The biggest cost of an electric car is the battery; and the cost of batteries is dropping very fast. Everything else is significantly cheaper in an electric vehicle except for the cost of the battery. (Tesla used to say there's a "Moore's Law" of battery…

>> sometime in the 2020s when an electric vehicle becomes cheaper than a gas car. Maybe, but the limitations of electric vehicles still mean it is an apple and oranges comparison. Electric cars are still a long way off in terms of range, towing capacity, utility and winter performance. They might seem great in California, especially as a second car, but they are still a long long way off from replicating how many non…

I live in New England and take my Model 3 on long ski trips all the time.

Remember, an electric motor has much more torque than a gas motor. The only obstacle is battery cost.

BTW, go look up Ford's video of the F150 conversion to EV that they did. It towed a crazy amount of weight.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#170

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

jedberg wrote: post #83
throw0101a wrote: post #26

My parents' house does not have a garage or a driveway, how exactly will the only-full-EV future work for them? Where are they supposed to charge?

Sadly I think the answer to this is "more consumerism". As you get more all electrics, you'll see more chargers showing up at restaurants and shopping centers, encouraging you to "charge while you spend". Either that or cities are going to have to deal with a bunch of really long extension cords all over the street! I suppose another option is that you'll see an AirBnB type thing for garages with chargers, or small "…

> As you get more all electrics, you'll see more chargers showing up at restaurants and shopping centers, encouraging you to "charge while you spend".

Reading a lot of these replies makes me think that Austin must be ahead of the game. I can't think of the last time I went to a grocery store that they didn't have a charging station available.

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