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8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

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Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#161

Post by chachachoney »

Alex3917 wrote: post #30

IMHO this reflects poorly on CloudFlare. The supreme court has ruled time and time again that the right to free speech implies the right to be heard. While CloudFlare obviously isn't legally required to serve 8chan, the only service they are really providing is making it so that 8chan can't be DDOS'd. And DDOS'ing is very clearly a tactic that violates the first amendment. So really by no longer serving 8chan, the on…

>> It reminds me a lot of Charlottesville, where people showed up to try to shout over the white nationalists and it just ended up with a bunch of people getting run over by a car. As if something like that happening wasn't entirely predictable.

People showed up to exercise their own first amendment rights, which is how the whole free speech thing works.

Those with opposing points of view also showed up to demonstrate that ordinary people wouldn't be intimidated by white nationalists marching and carrying intimidating symbols from the past.

Are you suggesting that the best response to these regressive viewpoints is for ordinary decent folk to let them alone and do their own thing in peace? Cowardice.

That would only serve to embolden them, and an emboldened hate group is even more likely to engage in violent activity against the targets of their hate.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#162

Post by shdh »

jklinger410 wrote: post #59
gwbas1c wrote: post #5

I'm of the opinion that if we suppress it, it doesn't go away. When it comes back, it's much harder to control. I also firmly believe that everyone has biases and inclinations that are morally wrong. The sooner we learn how to deal with the "good guys" unfair biases, the sooner we can figure out how to deal with the "bad guys" too.

Many of these outlets are just honeypots, anyway. Which is why they are so readily available. TOR and 8ch are both good examples of this.

> honeypots

Assuming this is true, plenty of people still slip through the cracks

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#163

Post by dd36 »

javagram wrote: post #101
eridius wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists I mean, it literally radicalized white supremacist terrorists . There's no "had the potential" anymore, it's a fact. It also sounds like it held plenty of child porn, so I don't understand why it took until now for anyone to do anything about the site.

I doubt the CP part is accurate, the government could take the site down in that case (unless they were intentionally leaving it up as a honeypot).

The government sure got Backpage down quick and thoroughly.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#164

Post by duskwuff »

javagram wrote: post #101
eridius wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's beyond clear to me that it absolutely had the potential to radicalize shooters and terrorists I mean, it literally radicalized white supremacist terrorists . There's no "had the potential" anymore, it's a fact. It also sounds like it held plenty of child porn, so I don't understand why it took until now for anyone to do anything about the site.

I doubt the CP part is accurate, the government could take the site down in that case (unless they were intentionally leaving it up as a honeypot).

I'm afraid that part is largely accurate. While 8ch administrators and global moderators did respond to reports of CP hosted on their site, they handled these reports on a largely reactive basis -- the anonymous-imageboard model used by the site made it impossible to block individual posters in any effective fashion, and I don't believe the site had any way to block specific files from being reposted.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#165

Post by sagichmal »

Meekro wrote: post #153

When I was much younger, I remember being filled with wonder when I learned about the Skokie case[1], where the ACLU went to court to protect the rights of Nazis to hold a rally in a mostly-Jewish town. "Wait, they faced down criticism from every direction, and took a massive loss in donations, to stand up for the fundamental rights of people they despise? Is this what liberals do? I want to be a liberal! " Sadly, if…

Not sadly, but hopefully!

Free speech absolutism is a maladaptive local optima. Free speech isn’t an end in itself, it’s a means, a tool, that every society must use to create just and ethical outcomes.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#166

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

TehCorwiz wrote: post #99
DrDimension wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is that information does not radicalize people - censorship does. That's why the channers are as radicalized as they are - they've been censored everywhere else. Censor their last remaining outlets and you will increase violence by orders of magnitude. If ethno-nationalists are not allowed to make their political case with speech, what alternative would they have but violence? You obviously can't change the…

The US president supports and advocates for their cause. A national television syndicate (Fox) echos their talking points. I don't think you can call them censored.

>The US president supports and advocates for their cause.

Citation?

EDIT: Lots of votes, no citations. OK. Sometimes HN looks a lot like Reddit

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#167

Post by shiado »

LargeWu wrote: post #120

Can any free speech absolutists explain to me the legitimate public interest that is served by allowing terrorist breeding grounds like 8chan to continue to operate?

One man's terrorist rhetoric is another's glorious revolutionary thought. If you don't think that the precedents being set today won't affect leftist spaces which seek to alter America's failed state version of capitalism you are truly naive. Was the Patriot act and subsequent rights degrading laws about combating Islamic terrorism? Or was it about legalizing oppressive control and mass surveillance?

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#168

Post by Reedx »

commanderjroc wrote: post #6

I guess you could say that free speech has limits that are acceptable. You know you can't yell fire in a crowded room and not get litigation and charges brought against you. So, maybe 8chan just ran past the fine line of hate speech vs encouraging acts of hate. I.e you can be racist but you cannot encourage acts of extremism. If 8Chan was a breeding ground for Islamic Extremists would people be okay with still existi…

Christopher Hitchens yells fire in a crowded room here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2uzEM0ugY

More importantly, his talk is worth watching for a strong understanding of why free speech is so vital.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#169

Post by bonestamp2 »

whiddershins wrote: post #137
bonestamp2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess you could say that free speech has limits that are acceptable. There are already limits to free speech that most people don't complain about. The most frequent example is defamation. I do like how Canada handles hate speed -- like defamation, it is illegal. There's really no benefit to protecting hate speech. If you argue it is a slippery slope, we're already on a slope with defamation so the benefits of ad…

This analysis is completely wrong. Defamation has a fairly clear definition, causes specific damages, and is directed at an individual. Hate speech is almost the definitive slippery slope, the definition changes in real-time and can easily and always expand.

I supposed I should have mentioned how Canada defines illegal hate speech, because that has a clear definition too. The type of hate speech that is illegal there is hate speech that advocates or incites violence or genocide. That's clear and defines how it is damaging, therefore it's not definitively slippery.

Re: 8chan goes dark after hardware provider discontinues service

#170

Post by [deleted] »

Alex3917 wrote: post #30

IMHO this reflects poorly on CloudFlare. The supreme court has ruled time and time again that the right to free speech implies the right to be heard. While CloudFlare obviously isn't legally required to serve 8chan, the only service they are really providing is making it so that 8chan can't be DDOS'd. And DDOS'ing is very clearly a tactic that violates the first amendment. So really by no longer serving 8chan, the on…

[deleted]
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