Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook • Hacker News Board

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#161

Post by b3b0p » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:47 PM UTC

I think I'm definitely in the minority here on this community, but I actually don't mind the keyboard and TouchBar.

The keyboard, although not as good as my Thinkpad, is far superior to many still and not bad. The problem I have with the keyboard is that it's not a user replaceable part and is nigh impossible to replace. Since it's the most used component arguably and wears and has moving parts and is exposed to the real world being able to for example like my Thinkpad of past take it out or replace it or clean it. Similar case could be said for the battery.

The Touch Bar I don't mind and like. Mapping the Esc key to caps lock works better for me anyway since I have small hands with short reach. I look at it as an evolution of the finger print reader you would often see in previous years on other laptops. Plus, it's programmable, which you would think the creative and entrepreneur bunch here would love and find many hacks and ways to take advantage of. I guess not.

I do look forward to any changes Apple decides though. The only Apple keyboard and computer I hated was the Titanium PowerBook. The keyboard on that and the fragility of the whole computer was terrible. My favorite so far as been the Aluminum PowerBook G4 12 and 17. Followed by the first MacBook Pro.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#162

Post by bad_user » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

b3b0p wrote: post #161

I think I'm definitely in the minority here on this community, but I actually don't mind the keyboard and TouchBar. The keyboard, although not as good as my Thinkpad, is far superior to many still and not bad. The problem I have with the keyboard is that it's not a user replaceable part and is nigh impossible to replace. Since it's the most used component arguably and wears and has moving parts and is exposed to the…

> Mapping the Esc key to caps lock works better for me

I'm mapping Caps Lock to Control, because it's way more useful. Yes, I'm an Emacs user primarily, but I know Vim users that do the same.

You can't remap Caps Lock twice.

And what will happen when Caps Lock itself will be gone?

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#163

Post by davnicwil » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

rev12 wrote: post #121

It seems like there are two camps of people: Those who are very pleased to hear they will be backpedaling on their updated keyboard designs. Those who "don't understand" because they actually like the new keyboards (and the TouchBar even). No matter where you stand, the new keyboards are highly controversial and divisive, and that's not good. The old keyboards didn't put people into opposing sides, they just were the…

> non controversial, widely accepted as "fine"

This isn't what Apple does. There are many examples of them making changes that people dislike initially, but then over time emerge as 'the way'.

It seems in this case they may have gone too far and have not managed to convert enough people over to thinking the new keyboard is actually better than the old one - though this is certainly compounded by the reliability issue and might have been true otherwise.

But what they don't do, and shouldn't do, is drive for non controversial and fine. There are plenty of laptop manufacturers that use this strategy, and we can all agree that Apple make vastly, vastly superior laptops to those brands. Mistakes might be made, but they're part and parcel of what make Apple, Apple. Without the risk of mistakes, we also wouldn't have all the other great features that the MacBook has.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#164

Post by Amezarak » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #111

xattt wrote: post #85

I sardonically worry that they will offer a touch screen keyboard instead.

I'm amazed by my iPhone 8 home button. It's not a real button, it's just an imitation, but its feedback is so real. I don't know whether it would be possible, but I think that it's a possibility: to imitate an entire keyboard with just flat touch panel. That would solve all problems with those movement parts that always failing and there would be no holes for dust at all!

What's wrong with just going back to plain-old keyboards that work? Why do we need this 'innovation' in the keyboard space?

'My keyboard broke' has never been a problem. I used the same laptop for just shy of 12 years. No keyboard problems. I'm typing on a 10+ year old keyboard right now. The only 'problem' is that some of the letters are partially worn away. Why not just use what works instead of inventing something new, probably more expensive, with new and different failure modes?

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#165

Post by fogetti » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

Perceptes wrote: post #71

I desperately hope this is true. I have the first MacBook Pro that came with the Touch Bar, and it's the worst computer I've ever owned. The keyboard has failed twice, and the Touch Bar is inferior to the old hardware keys in every way. I hate it. The only reason I got it is because the MacBook Air it replaced was dying and I couldn't wait any more. Assuming this report is true, my only remaining worry is that they w…

I have a Macbook Air (2017 version) which I spilled a can of beer into. I thought it was dead but after leaving it to rest for a few days it resurrected from the dead and it works ever since like nothing happened. I love that machine. Indestructible.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#166

Post by epanchin » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

I don’t own a Mac, but on behalf of anyone who has ever shared a room or train with that click clackedy mess, thank you Apple.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#167

Post by natrik » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

afandian wrote: post #101

xattt wrote: post #85

I sardonically worry that they will offer a touch screen keyboard instead.

The Lenovo Yoga Book is a hinged tablet. Bottom half is a glass surface with both capacitive touch and Wacom digitiser. It comes with a Wacom pen, which has a swappable ballpoint pen nib so you can draw on paper and have it digitised. There's a backlit silkscreen-type stencil that shines through a (permanent) keyboard layout. And touchpad. So, it's touch-screen typing on a fixed keyboard layout. And you can swap betw…

Upon clicking that link: annoying survey popup, long loading times, chat with a Lenovo specialist modal on the side, not a great color scheme, buggy scrolling.

Just a bad experience from Lenovo overall.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#168

Post by jen20 » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

b3b0p wrote: post #161

I think I'm definitely in the minority here on this community, but I actually don't mind the keyboard and TouchBar. The keyboard, although not as good as my Thinkpad, is far superior to many still and not bad. The problem I have with the keyboard is that it's not a user replaceable part and is nigh impossible to replace. Since it's the most used component arguably and wears and has moving parts and is exposed to the…

We likely are in the minority, but I find the 2016-19 era MacBook Pro to be the only laptop I can comfortably type on all day without triggering RSI pain. I also make extensive use of the Touch Bar. I will think twice about buying an updated machine.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#169

Post by eqtn » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

d3ckard wrote: post #26

Don't understand the problem. I like new keyboard more than the previous one, I'm indifferent to touchbar and mapping escape to capslock was the best thing ever. The only thing I hate is keys getting stuck, but it actually stopped happening(2017 model). I wouldn't like to come back to old keyboard now.

The new keyboard is less wobbly than the old keyboard. It would have been an awesome keyboard, if there is little more travel and they had completely fix the keys getting stuck issue. Maybe returning back to the scissor keys confirms that there isn't a solution yet.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#170

Post by matwood » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

b3b0p wrote: post #161

I think I'm definitely in the minority here on this community, but I actually don't mind the keyboard and TouchBar. The keyboard, although not as good as my Thinkpad, is far superior to many still and not bad. The problem I have with the keyboard is that it's not a user replaceable part and is nigh impossible to replace. Since it's the most used component arguably and wears and has moving parts and is exposed to the…

I agree with you. I like the new keyboard, as long as it's reliable. After using the new keyboard for awhile I certainly do not want to go back. Hopefully the new keyboard keeps the current feel while fixing the reliability issues.