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World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

bloomberg.com

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Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#161

Post by Nition »

nextos wrote: post #153
Nition wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this vague idea of starting a "buy it for life" type store, everything with a 10+ year warranty, plus required maintenance stated clearly for each product. Sell tools, clothing, kitchenware, appliances, whatever. Is there anywhere like that already? I'm in New Zealand but I'd like to hear about international examples even if I couldn't shop there.

I think Manufactum is the most similar thing out there, yet still far from perfect. They focus too much on old looks vs quality.

Thanks, Manufactum looks great. As you say though, everything looks plenty solid and reliable, but as far as I can see they don't state any sort of actual warranty/guarantee.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#162

Post by sk5t »

kpU8efre7r wrote: post #136
weiming wrote: post #46

We just moved and needed to buy some new kitchenware. You would not believe how difficult it is to find so much as a spoon that is not made in China. Even from any name brand, even in a "fancy" store like Williams-Sonoma.

Yep. I wanted a good American made roasting rack so I went to Williams Sonoma. They're all made in China now.

All-Clad (but not the HA2 line, I presume an MBA got their hooks into the operation) is still made in the USA.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#163

Post by nraynaud »

bigiain wrote: post #105
nraynaud wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CE mark is a self reported thing. TüV and UL are more reliable, but they are still a minimum standard of safety, not a sign of quality.

Are you talking the Conformite Europe Mark? Or the all but identical China Export Mark? (Now I'm expecting some Bitcoin "investor" to jump in with "blockchain all the certification marks!" as though that'd solve the problem of people not caring...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking#China_Export

'The Commission responded that it was unaware of the existence of any "Chinese Export" mark'

This legend has to stop. CE is a self declaration marking, and it's just people applying the CE marking when they have not respected the relevant standards.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#164

Post by cannonedhamster »

nextos wrote: post #80
davidw wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessarily local - these aren't what I'd call high end or "hipster" type markets, just regular supermarkets. They'll bring in stuff from southern Italy, or Spain or wherever is convenient. But they do pay attention to quality because their customers want that.

I'd still argue that's quite local. In most Spanish supermarkets, stuff tended to be local or from nearby EU countries. Although now things are degrading. My favorite UK supermarket sells organic pine kernels from China, at a ridiculously high price. That's not local, nor pine kernels are typical produce from China. It's just seeking high margins.

Soil composition, fertilizers, vegetable strains, and weather conditions all impact taste. Tomatoes from my garden made from heirloom seeds taste significantly better than best boy, beefsteak, or even tomatoes on the vine. I've had tomatoes from Italy, in Romania if all places, and can concur that even the produce exported tastes worlds better than what you can buy in the average US supermarket. I'd wager that the type of produce grown in the US is the culprit as it tends to be more important to have shelf stable and attractive produce than tasty produce. Stuff from my garden or the farmer's market is comparable to produce I've had in Europe.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#165

Post by cannonedhamster »

nextos wrote: post #38
lostlogin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are notable exception to this in most industries, but it’s got to be a hard path to walk. Somewhat amusingly, most people’s favourite brands tend to be the more quality ones, if my circle is anything to go by (which is a trap). If it’s what they buy is a whole different thing.

> A step further, it seems most people's favourite brands tend to be ones which were high quality in the past. Its a rare situation where that quality continues as mass market appeal arrives. Yes, I think this is a typical brand lifecycle. Somewhat niche brand gets famous due to high quality and appealing image. Brand gets bought by big group, with a lot of expertise in distribution and marketing. Quality goes downhi…

The whole Kenmore/Whirlpool/Maytag/Jenn-Air/etc branding joke is that they switch which brand is the good one frequently to sucker people into buying garbage so you really have to be careful and do your homework for every single device. Have a great white Whirlpool dishwasher that replaced a near identical looking model. Apparently the motor and a few other parts were significantly different as while the prior model only made "the energy star sounds" it frequently clogged and never cleaned. The new one is a champ, uses less energy, less water, cleans everything, fits more dishes, and never clogs and I'm pretty sure it was cheaper than the previous model. The previous house had an amazing portable dishwasher I'd plumbed in. I had to replace the motor once and the impeller twice (user error) but the thing was over 20 years old and still ran like new. They certainly don't build them to last like that anymore.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#166

Post by davidw »

cannonedhamster wrote: post #164
nextos wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd still argue that's quite local. In most Spanish supermarkets, stuff tended to be local or from nearby EU countries. Although now things are degrading. My favorite UK supermarket sells organic pine kernels from China, at a ridiculously high price. That's not local, nor pine kernels are typical produce from China. It's just seeking high margins.

Soil composition, fertilizers, vegetable strains, and weather conditions all impact taste. Tomatoes from my garden made from heirloom seeds taste significantly better than best boy, beefsteak, or even tomatoes on the vine. I've had tomatoes from Italy, in Romania if all places, and can concur that even the produce exported tastes worlds better than what you can buy in the average US supermarket. I'd wager that the ty…

> it tends to be more important to have shelf stable and attractive produce than tasty produce.

Yes, exactly. US customers are selecting for the biggest/dollar with no blemishes, rather than the tastiest.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#167

Post by chihuahua »

z3phyr wrote: post #128
sasaf5 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Particularly I miss low-spec, high quality items. I want a good laptop for writing, it has to be only powerful enough to run emacs and a browser. but it has to survive being trashed around and the battery must be available 10 years from now for replacement. Good luck finding that kind of product...

8 megs and swapping

That phrase only makes sense in the context of a time when 8MB of RAM was considered a lot.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#168

Post by rangibaby »

ppod wrote: post #35
josho wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

Good point. This is where public online reviews come in. It's a bit tricky with amazon, because for some products different sellers source slightly different versions of the product (or just knock-offs), but in theory open online review is a revolution for the customer-quality information gap.

Why reviews are horrible, even (especially?) on Youtube:

SO HYPED ABOUT THIS PRODUCT. CAN'T WAIT UNTIL IT'S RELEASED (5 stars)

(brand) hits it out of the park again! Thanks for the review model, paid trip to Hawaii, and sweet t-shirt, (brand). This makes all (other brands) obsolete! Hail Sony! (5 stars)

This new model makes the old one look like trash. A new era has arrived (5 stars)

(One year earlier on the previous model): This new model makes the old one look like trash. A new era has arrived (5 stars)

Used it for 5 minutes, I love it (5 stars)

I've never used it but (YT celebrity) said it's good (5 stars)

(paid spam review) (5 stars)

(review of another product) (5 stars)

Good and knowledgeable review that has an honest view of the strengths and weaknesses of the product. Might have a mix of broken English, bad production values, or be by a kid with a squeaky voice or someone who looks ugly: 3 stars

WAS HYPED ABOUT THIS BUT SICK OF WAITING (1 star)

Great five-star product but (random seller) sucks / was slow to ship it / wouldn't take my return! (1 star)

It broke when I dropped it out of an airplane (1 star)

How do I turn it on? (1 star)

(complaint about related but different model of same product) (1 star)

(review of another product) (1 star)

Out of stock! (1 star)

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#169

Post by cannonedhamster »

dc_gregory wrote: post #32
lostlogin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are notable exception to this in most industries, but it’s got to be a hard path to walk. Somewhat amusingly, most people’s favourite brands tend to be the more quality ones, if my circle is anything to go by (which is a trap). If it’s what they buy is a whole different thing.

A step further, it seems most people's favourite brands tend to be ones which were high quality in the past. Its a rare situation where that quality continues as mass market appeal arrives.

Irwin tools, Klein tools, Blaster Corp products, John Deere stuff, K-Bar, Leatherman, Ogio backpacks, and Patagonia. I'm sure there are others but these brands have held up well for me over time. It's definitely a short list. Lowe's Kobalt brand seems to be good for now but Craftsman is junk now, most major appliances are garbage, every television manufacturer I can think of has garbage QA, aside from Samsung and apple I can't think of a reputable phone brand sold in the US but even Apple quality has lessened a bit and Samsung has the exploding battery issue. It's gotten really hard to find quality that isn't hand made.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#170

Post by cannonedhamster »

rangibaby wrote: post #168
ppod wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. This is where public online reviews come in. It's a bit tricky with amazon, because for some products different sellers source slightly different versions of the product (or just knock-offs), but in theory open online review is a revolution for the customer-quality information gap.

Why reviews are horrible, even (especially?) on Youtube: SO HYPED ABOUT THIS PRODUCT. CAN'T WAIT UNTIL IT'S RELEASED (5 stars) (brand) hits it out of the park again! Thanks for the review model, paid trip to Hawaii, and sweet t-shirt, (brand). This makes all (other brands) obsolete! Hail Sony! (5 stars) This new model makes the old one look like trash. A new era has arrived (5 stars) (One year earlier on the previous…

Don't forget literally switched the product to another product and kept the old reviews including pictures of the old predicts.
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