World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory • Hacker News Board

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#31

Post by flyGuyOnTheSly » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:43 PM UTC

nextos wrote: post #8

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes…

>But it's a lot of trouble to find high quality items these days. I want to own few things and keep most for the rest of my life.

I concur on both fronts.

Might I suggest you check out thrift or second hand stores?

I have a collection of old aluminum cased power tools made in the mid 20th century in North America, and I think the most I paid for any one of them was $12 CAD.

They look amazing.

You can take them apart quickly and easily if you need to re-grease them.

You can re-wind the motor if you somehow manage to short it out.

They don't need a warranty, as they have proven themselves over the past 50+ years already.

Etc.

We've made a LOT of quality products over the years, many of which make their way into thrift stores sooner or later.

Paying 10% of what something would cost brand new, and getting quality that is typically 10x greater than the brand new version is a steal imho.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#32

Post by dc_gregory » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:43 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #22

azernik wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I worked at a company selling enterprise equipment, and they were absolutely opposed to entering the consumer market precisely because low-information customers push everyone into a race to the bottom.

There are notable exception to this in most industries, but it’s got to be a hard path to walk. Somewhat amusingly, most people’s favourite brands tend to be the more quality ones, if my circle is anything to go by (which is a trap). If it’s what they buy is a whole different thing.

A step further, it seems most people's favourite brands tend to be ones which were high quality in the past. Its a rare situation where that quality continues as mass market appeal arrives.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#33

Post by nextos » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:44 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #18

josho wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

On that same subject - it was interesting to me how much better fresh produce was in Italy. In no small part I think this is due to the fact that people have a pretty good ability to distinguish the quality of a lot of traditional foods there. In the stores, the produce isn't usually as neat and tidy and pretty as in the US - you might even find a few bad bits and pieces, but by and large, it tastes really good.

I'm not surprised. Local fresh produce tends to be the way to get much better food products.

What I would like to see is a curated list of all common objects we use daily that have the properties I mentioned above: high quality, safety and repairability.

Places like r/bifl and manufactum.de are good starting points, but they are far from complete.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#34

Post by nihonde » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:44 PM UTC

mymythisisthis wrote: post #23

Bicycles are something that you need to be careful buying. Don't buy a BSO - a Bicycle Shaped Object. Just because it looks like a bike, doesn't mean you can comfortably ride it. An entry level bike is about $1200. You can comfortably ride it for hours, or up hills, carry a heavy load, it won't easily break, and it'll have a smooth ride. I feel bad for people that go out and buy a BSO; BSOs ruin cycling. We need to h…

I have to laugh at this. In Japan, my Chinese-made bicycle is bulletproof and entirely functional. It cost $150, shipped to my front door. It’s a folding bike with 9 speeds and disc brakes. I’ve ridden it day after day for years. It spent two years without shelter in the elements. It won’t win the Tour but it is a winner in every other way.

You can tell me the environmental impact was horrendous and I would believe you, but the quality of this bicycle can’t be denied.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#35

Post by ppod » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:45 PM UTC

josho wrote: post #14

nextos wrote: post #8

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes…

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

Good point. This is where public online reviews come in. It's a bit tricky with amazon, because for some products different sellers source slightly different versions of the product (or just knock-offs), but in theory open online review is a revolution for the customer-quality information gap.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#36

Post by azernik » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:45 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #22

azernik wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I worked at a company selling enterprise equipment, and they were absolutely opposed to entering the consumer market precisely because low-information customers push everyone into a race to the bottom.

There are notable exception to this in most industries, but it’s got to be a hard path to walk. Somewhat amusingly, most people’s favourite brands tend to be the more quality ones, if my circle is anything to go by (which is a trap). If it’s what they buy is a whole different thing.

Yeah, this is kind of the entire point of trademarks - to let non-professionals get enough information about quality to make decisions on some basis other than just price.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#37

Post by phkahler » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:46 PM UTC

gravelc wrote: post #27

Giant is a Taiwanese company. I've had quite a few of their road bikes and mountain bikes over the years, and they have all been excellent - superbly designed and built. All made in Taiwan too - it seems only their cheaper frames are made in China ( https://cyclingtips.com/2015/02/a-tour-of-giants-taichung-fa... ). From what I've heard, a majority of the world's high-end bicycle frames are manufactured by Giant and P…

But if you ask China, Taiwan is also China.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#38

Post by nextos » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:47 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #22

azernik wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I worked at a company selling enterprise equipment, and they were absolutely opposed to entering the consumer market precisely because low-information customers push everyone into a race to the bottom.

There are notable exception to this in most industries, but it’s got to be a hard path to walk. Somewhat amusingly, most people’s favourite brands tend to be the more quality ones, if my circle is anything to go by (which is a trap). If it’s what they buy is a whole different thing.

> A step further, it seems most people's favourite brands tend to be ones which were high quality in the past. Its a rare situation where that quality continues as mass market appeal arrives.

Yes, I think this is a typical brand lifecycle. Somewhat niche brand gets famous due to high quality and appealing image. Brand gets bought by big group, with a lot of expertise in distribution and marketing. Quality goes downhill, prices skyrocket. Brand eventually loses appeal.

The LVMH Group does this all the time. But arguably, they don't lower quality too much.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#39

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:48 PM UTC

nkozyra wrote: post #2

Amazing to see an anecdote like this trotted out as newsworthy. There are three total data points and two of them are incredibly vague. Honestly, this feels a bit like propaganda.

It's just a click bait title, especially since the last sentence in the article is "If America “decides to remove the 25% tariff, we will move the production back to China right away,” Tu said."

Doesn't sound like the era of Made in China is over if they're itching to get back.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#40

Post by UI_at_80x24 » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:48 PM UTC

nextos wrote: post #8

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes…

>Sadly, it's all about price.

This is the problem, but not how you are stating it. If CEO's didn't make 300x the lowest paid employee, and "shareholders didn't demand" exponential growth quarter after quarter, then the price to be 'Not made in China' would be reasonable.

Fix these problems then the damages caused by seeking "cheapest possible AND cheaper" would be non-existant.

*NB: I am a shareholder. I want my investment to MATCH inflation not magically exceed it. If everybody stops being so greedy this is possible. (I wouldn't need to buy shares if my company and government didn't fuck up Retirement Benefits.)