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Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

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Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#161

Post by r0s »

scott_s wrote: post #102
endtime wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just not lie to myself. I have sufficiently high confidence that I wouldn't have bought Photoshop that I can sleep at night. :)

We are inherently irrational creatures susceptible to dozens of cognitive biases. As a consequence, we are very good at rationalizing things we want to do but would otherwise judge wrong. That was the point neild was making - in that context, saying you will "just not lie to myself" does not address his point.

> We are inherently irrational creatures susceptible to dozens of cognitive biases.

Well then, apply that to your own reasoning.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#162

Post by gnosis »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #144
gnosis wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very simple. If you don't want the music you created to be available free of charge, don't release it! It's absolutely your choice. If you want to keep control of it, keep it private. But once you (by your own choice) make it available, don't be shocked or surprised if people share it without sending you money for every copy. The system we have for paying artists is clearly broken. It has been for a very long ti…

>It's very simple. If you don't want the music you created to be available free of charge, don't release it! If you don't want your car to be stolen then don't leave it in the street. If you don't want to be run over then don't walk anywhere. ... Seriously, if you one day forget to lock something up do you really think people should be free to help themselves to it? If you don't like the current music regime, don't b…

"If you don't want your car to be stolen then don't leave it in the street."

There are a number of underlying assumption in your analogy.

- The first is that, like the car, the music you create is owned by you.

- The second is that, like the car, the music you create can be stolen.

- The third is that it is as unethical to share music as it is to steal cars.

All of these propositions are very debatable.

"Seriously, if you one day forget to lock something up do you really think people should be free to help themselves to it?"

I think you're missing my point. I wasn't trying to be a moral arbiter regarding the ethics of sharing music. I was merely trying to say that in the world we live in, you'd have to be pretty naive to release your music to the public with the expectation that people wouldn't share it without compensating you for it. If your goal is to keep your music from being shared, your best bet is not to release it at all.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#163

Post by skorgu »

rick888 wrote: post #157
hxa7241 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could also the same thing about anything. That is not accurate. Many laws -- those we probably most respect -- are grounded on actual basic factual effects. They have a justification prior to conventional or legal constructs. For example, if you take a material object from me, you deprive me -- directly and physically. That is the core justification of normal property, and there is no such justification for IP.

"For example, if you take a material object from me, you deprive me -- directly and physically. That is the core justification of normal property, and there is no such justification for IP." What about identity theft? You aren't actually "stealing" anything. The original identity is still there. Counterfeiting (currency and things like ipods) is another example. It's illegal and you aren't actually depriving anybody…

"Identity theft" per se is rarely the problem, it's the credit card (and other) frauds committed using the 'stolen' identity that cause issues. And obviously those frauds deprive both the actually-defrauded party and rightful 'owner' of the identity of the opportunity cost of sorting it all out.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#164

Post by InclinedPlane »

thefool wrote: post #129
hxa7241 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any system where support or funding for production does not depend on restricting copying: those should be inspirations for alternatives. Open-source/free software, Wikipedia, the BBC, science/academic research . . . The internet is a communication device, and we should be using to its max. All questions about distinguishing different kinds of copying, and whether one is moral or not, do not reach the real heart of t…

I totally agree. The problem is how do you make it possible for the best people making music (or whatever other internet good) to completely sustain themselves via things they put online.

Are you implying this isn't happening already?

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#165

Post by skorgu »

cma wrote: post #72
tptacek wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, but the underlying problem is very real: counterfeit goods.

If the Consumer Is Not Deceived, It's Not "Counterfeit" http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/if-the-co...

I agree in general, however there are circumstances where it's rather a different story: http://news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/2009/04/closing-the-d...

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#166

Post by InclinedPlane »

bphogan wrote: post #99
ErrantX wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but I think the point being made is that the artists (ignore the record companies, they're idiots) feel as if they are being stolen from. Not just in monetary cost. So; ethical theft?

We've all heard that record companies are evil, but then again they often pre-pay an artist to produce a record, pay for studio time, mixing, mastering, etc. There's a lot that goes into producing music, videos, and books than you see. Open up a book and look at the production credits. People do indexing, typesetting, copy editing, distribution, translations, artwork, and on and on. So if nobody's buying books, those…

Record companies work in a similar fashion to the way company store farms and factories work. A typical music recording contract will involve an advance given to the artists which they must pay back via their earnings on a small percentage of the total revenues from their album sales (perhaps 7%). They must use this advance to pay for studio time, music video production, and other expenses. The studio receives a larger percentage of album sale revenues while also "recouping" the amount of the advance by taking the portion of revenue that would normally go to the artists.

Let me know if you see any issues with this arrangement.

Typically, by the time a band has "recouped" its advance and has only began to start earning for the artists and has theoretically broken even according to the bizarre accounting of the studios in actuality it has resulted in a return on investment to the studios of several hundred percent.

Book publishing is similar but generally not quite so evil.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#167

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

philh wrote: post #97
InclinedPlane wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit too far into abstract hypotheticals for me. If I steal a candybar from a convenience store and it just happens to be a candybar that wouldn't have sold before it expired and had to be thrown out, is that stealing? If I shop-lift a screwdriver from home depot and then return it a week later is that stealing?

> If I shop-lift a screwdriver from home depot and then return it a week later is that stealing? Actually, no. If you intend to return it in the original condition, so they can still sell it, then legally speaking it isn't theft. (It may still be illegal, I don't know.) Just to clarify, I'm not claiming anything about piracy here.

So, if I beat the crap out of you, but take you to the hospital later and pay all your bills, it's OK?

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#168

Post by rprasad »

philh wrote: post #97
InclinedPlane wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit too far into abstract hypotheticals for me. If I steal a candybar from a convenience store and it just happens to be a candybar that wouldn't have sold before it expired and had to be thrown out, is that stealing? If I shop-lift a screwdriver from home depot and then return it a week later is that stealing?

> If I shop-lift a screwdriver from home depot and then return it a week later is that stealing? Actually, no. If you intend to return it in the original condition, so they can still sell it, then legally speaking it isn't theft. (It may still be illegal, I don't know.) Just to clarify, I'm not claiming anything about piracy here.

Actually, legally, it is theft. The crime is taking the property from the store without their permission. Whether or not you intend to return in its original condition is beside the point.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#169

Post by xenophanes »

jessriedel wrote: post #128
xenophanes wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely it's important to pay attention to what is actually said in discussions. What was being said is that taking a train seat with zero marginal cost to the train owners is parallel to downloading a song which has zero marginal cost to the band or record label. Both are taking something with no marginal cost. The point was that stealing that train seat really is stealing. That means that the argument "there is no m…

My interpretation... krschultz: "Trains have zero marginal cost. We call them stealing. Therefore, zero marginal cost does not prevent something from being called stealing." InclinedPlane: "Trains are different from music, in that the latter never fills up. Therefore, it is possible for zero marginal cost to be a defense." You: "InclinedPlane, just imagine a train which doesn't fill up." Me: "You are right that the h…

Your comment was completely off topic. You said there was a big difference between zero-mariginal-cost stealing and entirely-mariginal-cost stealing. Of course there is, but that has nothing to do with the arguments in the discussion. That's why I said you weren't following the discussion and explained the discussion to you.

Now you've rewritten your comment to remove the part about taking money out of someone's wallet and summarized it as "Your statement is true but that doesn't justify a conclusion [that you never asserted]". But the wallet part of your comment was important to your comment and is the reason I replied as I did.

The topic of my comments was about the parallel btwn no marginal cost activities (someone denied it with a bad argument, and I said so), so your reply to me (yes it was a reply to me, or you wouldn't have it nested under me) was off topic and missing the point of what I was talking about. It now sounds like you wanted to be talking to the original poster, krschultz, not me, which would have made more sense.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#170

Post by carussell »

alextgordon wrote: post #31
rick888 wrote: post #7

This still doesn't change the fact that piracy does hurt authors. The sad fact is that piracy is only getting worse. Even when you can get a song for 99 cents with no DRM or restrictions, music piracy is still rampant. I'm waiting for the next set of excuses. In '99, it was because music was too expensive and the artists were getting screwed (which is a funny excuse, because 1% of something is something, but 1% of 0…

The sad fact is that piracy is only getting worse. Even when you can get a song for 99 cents with no DRM or restrictions, music piracy is still rampant. I'm waiting for the next set of excuses. I rarely pirate music but, if I bought all my music on Amazon or iTunes I'd be paying thousands of dollars a year. For a large subset of the population, this is simply an unacceptable expense. Hence: piracy.

"My time is worth it. Take comfort knowing that it's okay for me to do this, because I've gone ahead and assessed that yours is not. Cheers."
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