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Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#161

Post by okatsu »

alex_hitchins wrote: post #95
a012 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or simply just leave yours at home, buy a burner phone on arrival.

I'd rather save my money and just not visit. I don't see anything that could out balance all the negatives. Many millions of Americans are lovely people who I'd donate a kidney to. I'd just not want to put myself through all that for so little gain.

I used to say that until I started doing sports competitions and had to travel there repeatedly. I was admittedly worried because of my ethnicity but it went fine (a Canadian passport and NEXUS membership might've helped...you also wouldn't find much on my phone other than sports memes, as much as I care about my privacy).

Similarly in the game development community, lots of people complain about customs but then go to GDC every year.

I guess my point is that as long as America continues being a pillar of the world, people (like myself!) will continue putting their principles aside and comply, and the system will have no reason to change.

I hope you'll last longer than I did. :)

Edit for clarifications.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#162

Post by _red »

chvid wrote: post #117

This assumes that he was not picked by random but instead there is some sort of list of people to check at airports that you can be put on because of your work within IT-security. That would be a big story if that is the case. I will offer a counter-narrative which is more in line with my own experience (from other places than the US): The people who work at border control in particular in airports are bored. They ar…

Moreover, its interesting that he believes that he was targeted because he said anti-Trump statements. Yet, it doesn't seem to occur to him that: This is what you get when you advocate for "big government".

The downside of having big government is that it winds up being staffed with mad-with-power bureaucrats, who will mess your life up just because.

I miss the time when most techies believed in civil liberties and were wary of government. Chickens coming home to roost and all that...

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#163

Post by danjohn »

Something1234 wrote: post #119
falcor84 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, prefer to avoid bringing your own devices with you when you fly. Leave your laptop and smartphone at home, and rent temporary ones after you cross.

How do you find a rented laptop trustworthy?

Although it may not be morally ok, one could just buy a laptop for a conference etc, and then return it after a week if the store has a return policy. I've seen stores take back laptops no questions asked for up to 60 days.

If you are in a pinch.

If not you can just sell it (there or at home) and take the loss as a rental fee.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#165

Post by toss1 »

Even as a US citizen, at this point, it is my policy to never leave the country with a device & set of data that I wouldn't mind losing at customs.

Even though I have an essentially absolute right to re-enter the country, my hardware apparently does not, at least without potentially being detained for an extended period.

So, burner phone and pre-wiped laptop if I need it, all powered down. If I need any files while away, store them in a secure Box or other account before crossing borders.

At this point, it seems like just a necessary evil extra expense in time and money, and a good idea for other countries, although it sadly seems that the US is now the fast follower of Russia, China, etc, in terms of repressive practices.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#166

Post by whoCaresAnymore »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #102

Traveling internationally with encrypted data you don't want to disclose to border officials is not a good plan these days. Much safer to transfer securely via network connection. It's easy to single out the US but the reality is that most countries have pretty far reaching rules these days. E.g. the UK and Australia are hardly any safer. And forget about China, Russia, or indeed most countries with even less democra…

Transfering via network is only secure, if you believe that forward security exists for network traffic, which is very likely untrue.

The point being: if your encrypted network traffic is captured and retained, maybe it can still be brute forced at liesure, and deduplicated for deltas only. Thus, volume is only a temporary issue, and everyone still gets to see everything eventually, and full retrospective records are still enriched, so maybe that's fine for some things, and not for others.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#167

Post by leesalminen »

musha68k wrote: post #44
mikeash wrote: post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

Quick reminder: Non US citizens only go to conferences outside the US. There is no excuse we should put up with this. Canada and EU are much better locations for this reason alone.

In the past several years, I’ve entered 6 countries as a US citizen. Only Canada has demanded access to my phone.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#168

Post by metric10 »

wyldfire wrote: post #76
mikeash wrote: post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

> but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Best to enter the customs zone with the phone powered off, your device's security is likely better in this state, less likely to be circumvented while you surrender it.

Good advice!

Things like mobile boarding passes and the "Mobile Passport" app encourage and train people to hand their devices over to TSA and CBP personnel. In that later case, unlocked and with an app CBP/DHS controls already installed (with a lengthy ToS no one ever reads).

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#169

Post by Dangeranger »

vageli wrote: post #140
_8j7i wrote: post #75

"...he clammed up, taking the Fifth, and citing constitutional rights against unwarranted searches. ...border agents told him he had no constitutional nor any legal protections, and threatened him with criminal charges should he not concede to the search. ...he was eventually allowed to leave with his belongings, the devices still locked, and no charges were pressed." My goodness! I guess those protections did exit a…

Border agents may lie about your rights? Is there no Miranda equivalent for this type of detainment?

There is not.

Customs and Border Patrol operate under a special set of circumstances within ports of entry. You do not have the right to have an attorney present during the interrogation, you can have your personal belongings confiscated, you can be held without charge for up to four hours for any "reasonable" suspicion.

These same rules apply within one hundred miles of the United States border. So if you live near the any ocean, Great Lakes, the Mexican border or Canadian border, you live under a different set of rights than the rest of America.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#170

Post by Diederich »

Cerium wrote: post #92
Diederich wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a risk if you stay in the airport, in the secure zone? (Whatever it's called...I've flown rarely over the past couple of decades.)

All flights that stop in the USA require all passengers to clear customs before continuing their journey.

I had no idea, thank you.
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