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What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

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Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#161

Post by throwaway287391 »

base698 wrote: post #157
throwaway287391 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get why you'd think it's rude/unnecessary, but I don't think it's a generalization to say it's very unlikely that anywhere near half of the audience of a blog post like this is on Team Trump. I'm sure there are Trump supporters that read and digest this kind of content regularly, but any familiarity with the typical cultural attitudes and media consumption patterns of Trump supporters makes it obvious that that's f…

You're taking a characterization of Trump supporters created by the media for entertainment assuming that is the world writ large.

Really? You genuinely think it's plausible that roughly half of the readers of this blogpost are Trump supporters? I'm really not taking an outlandish stance here... this post will have most of its traffic driven by HackerNews and Reddit, where California is an outsized plurality of the American audience, which went overwhelmingly to Clinton in 2016 (and even more overwhelmingly so in the densest parts of California where the overwhelming sub-plurality of HN/Reddit traffic comes from: the Bay Area and LA). Even if you believe that, all else equal, the average Trump supporter's media diet is about the same as the average non-Trump-supporter's, the demographics of these aggregators alone makes it more or less statistically impossible that what I'm saying isn't true.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#162

Post by tntn »

witcherchaos wrote: post #156
martythemaniak wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the US does currently have a president who got (at least partly) famous in the Pro Wrestling circuit, so big points there. But it's only a superficial resemblance. President Comacho saw a real problem (lack of food), realized he needed help tacking the issue, sought out literally the smartest person in the world, followed his advice and solved the issue. President Trump makes up problems, staffs his cabinet wit…

The current administration, the one you called Idiocracy, stood up against dictatorship China and exposed the bubble mirage that was the Chinese economy. The Chinese economy is now crashing hard. This current administration did what many said was impossible: wage increases in the age of automation and globalization. This administration has US economy growing at 3%, when most other global economies are going into rece…

You might be attributing too much to the actions of this administration.

And fwiw, real wage growth doesn't look that great. It has actually been negative for the last few months.

I don't think "standing up to dictatorships" is a very strong argument for this administration.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#163

Post by megous »

rapht wrote: post #158

As some others have said, a well-thought-out article on the larger scale impacts of the Internet as a new medium of communication - just get past the intro. In the end, it's interesting because it puts together a number of intuitions you may already have about the upcoming western social-democratic crisis stemming from the loss of authoritative sources of information. What is missing is actually ideas about what syst…

I've just watched a documentary about Bellingcat, and one suggested answer there is transparency about the data, sources and methods.

So when the news media will lose their aura of journalistic professionalism and authority stemming from that, there will be something actually better that will arise after that.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#164

Post by antt »

zzzeek wrote: post #42
antt wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I also call them "unindicted co-conspirators in multiple federal crimes". Now who does everyone think I'm describing? The Clintons? > There is no comparison to anything here not even Richard Nixon. I'd compare him to Kennedy. Minus the mob 'losing' a few ballot boxes for him. It's unfortunate that otherwise intelligent people minds shut down when partisanship comes into play.

> The Clintons? Please share the legal filing where the Clintons were named as Individual 1 and Individual 2 as those who directed the crime to take place, in a criminal case by federal prosecutors. > It's unfortunate that otherwise intelligent people minds shut down when partisanship comes into play. this is nonsense. Democrats are indicted and convicted of crimes as well and there is no need to deny these facts - B…

>Please share the legal filing where the Clintons were named as Individual 1 and Individual 2 as those who directed the crime to take place, in a criminal case by federal prosecutors.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/chapter/343893

>Neither Bill Clinton nor Hillary were ever prosecuted, after three separate inquiries found insufficient evidence linking them with the criminal conduct of others related to the land deal. The matter was handled by the Whitewater Independent Counsel, Kenneth Starr. The last of these inquiries came from the final Independent Counsel, Robert Ray (who replaced Starr) in 2000.[6] Susan McDougal was granted a pardon by Bill Clinton before he left office.

About as shoddy as shoddy gets, especially the part with the pardon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controvers...

Again, partisanship is a hell of a drug.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#165

Post by base698 »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #161
base698 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're taking a characterization of Trump supporters created by the media for entertainment assuming that is the world writ large.

Really? You genuinely think it's plausible that roughly half of the readers of this blogpost are Trump supporters? I'm really not taking an outlandish stance here... this post will have most of its traffic driven by HackerNews and Reddit, where California is an outsized plurality of the American audience, which went overwhelmingly to Clinton in 2016 (and even more overwhelmingly so in the densest parts of California…

I must have misunderstood. I'm not saying anything about the readership of HN, only that the characterization of Trump supporters in your post is based on media narrative and not fact.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#166

Post by bitL »

martythemaniak wrote: post #75
miloshadzic wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget Idiocracy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGUNPMPrxvA

Well, the US does currently have a president who got (at least partly) famous in the Pro Wrestling circuit, so big points there. But it's only a superficial resemblance. President Comacho saw a real problem (lack of food), realized he needed help tacking the issue, sought out literally the smartest person in the world, followed his advice and solved the issue. President Trump makes up problems, staffs his cabinet wit…

Some African countries are now literally living idiocracy (or are already past the initial optimistic phase when things still somewhat worked).

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#167

Post by hhs »

megous wrote: post #163
rapht wrote: post #158

As some others have said, a well-thought-out article on the larger scale impacts of the Internet as a new medium of communication - just get past the intro. In the end, it's interesting because it puts together a number of intuitions you may already have about the upcoming western social-democratic crisis stemming from the loss of authoritative sources of information. What is missing is actually ideas about what syst…

I've just watched a documentary about Bellingcat, and one suggested answer there is transparency about the data, sources and methods. So when the news media will lose their aura of journalistic professionalism and authority stemming from that, there will be something actually better that will arise after that.

Interesting view. Have you heard of Onora O'Neill?

She's aiming to take transparency further. O'Neill and her colleagues at the Royal Society have been pushing for 'intelligent openness' where data and information would be made accessible, intelligible, assessable, and usable by anyone. If interested, there's a report called "Science as an Open Enterprise", which goes in depth.

https://royalsociety.org/news/2012/science-open-enterprise/

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#168

Post by stdcli »

rapht wrote: post #158

As some others have said, a well-thought-out article on the larger scale impacts of the Internet as a new medium of communication - just get past the intro. In the end, it's interesting because it puts together a number of intuitions you may already have about the upcoming western social-democratic crisis stemming from the loss of authoritative sources of information. What is missing is actually ideas about what syst…

I think the core issue here is the elephant in the room in tech that noone wants to talk about. The tech industry has put most of it's money making eggs in the ads basket. This means companies selling ads are promoting the kind of mass information spread that is sensationalist because it gets their ads the most views, and the tech community makes money off of this.

How well do ads actually work? I really don't know. Is there any objective data to measure this? There are three main companies who sell ad spaces on a real time market and it is a very interesting market that I feel like most people know little about, especially people in tech.

Regardless of how well or not well this works, it's what floats companies like Google and Facebook.

I would say the tech companies are the ones fueling this because it is the their multibillion dollar business models that rely on sensationalist news to sell ads. period. To shift the blame to politicians or to even journalists trying to compete with other sensationalist news blogs or companies who make money from selling ads, is shifting the source and the root cause of the issue, from us, the tech community.

To act like as a tech community we are severely concerned about mass information, the spread misinformation etc etc but also not address how we can fundamentally move away from a market in tech that makes money off of anything besides selling ads to people, or selling peoples information to ad companies (and god knows who else, I mean, only the big tech three know who else), is delusional and self serving, at best.

Despite this, I rarely hear anyone in the tech community willing to openly talk about these problems, much less come up with alternative business solutions.

I would love for there to be more conversation around moving away from a tech market that preys on harvesting user data and ads to solutions that solve people's problems instead of activist posturing from people in tech who talk alot about being concerned about politics etc but work for the companies that fuel this spread of misinformation.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#169

Post by mistermann »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #161
base698 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're taking a characterization of Trump supporters created by the media for entertainment assuming that is the world writ large.

Really? You genuinely think it's plausible that roughly half of the readers of this blogpost are Trump supporters? I'm really not taking an outlandish stance here... this post will have most of its traffic driven by HackerNews and Reddit, where California is an outsized plurality of the American audience, which went overwhelmingly to Clinton in 2016 (and even more overwhelmingly so in the densest parts of California…

Ask yourself this: how do you know what the average Trump supporter's media diet consists of?
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