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What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

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Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#151

Post by [deleted] »

ThomPete wrote: post #62
eeeeeeeeeeeee wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the OP is being downvoted for saying Trump is a populist, but for drawing a false equivalence between Trump and AOC. I think you need more than "they are populists" to throw them in the same boat, it should be well supported. AOC uses Twitter and social media well, just as Trump does, but are they really using it the same way, to the same ends? I have yet to see AOC just straight up lie like Trump does…

You are completely missing the point about what makes them populist and thus you are trapped in only one perspective when there are in fact several. If green new deal isnt populist i dont know what is.

[deleted]

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#152

Post by robocat »

martythemaniak wrote: post #10

One thing that I find interesting is how none of the great dystopian works of the 20th century featured celebrities as the ruling class. The antagonists are like Bond villains, smart, sophisticated, rational, cruel. A worthy adversary you could respect and feel good about struggling against. Our reality is that we've made our lives so advanced and comfortable, that our fantasies can try to become our reality. I guess…

1984 has zero celebrities - they don't and can't exist in that world.

The only figure with a face is big brother, and he didn't exist. I think Goldstein had no face?

If the proles (85% of the population) had celebrities, they would not be actual people : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolefeed

"Below that come the dumb masses whom we habitually refer to as 'the proles', numbering perhaps 85 per cent of the population."

"What opinions the masses hold, or do not hold, is looked on as a matter of indifference. They can be granted intellectual liberty because they have no intellect."

"There was a whole chain of separate departments dealing with proletarian literature, music, drama, and entertainment generally. Here were produced rubbishy newspapers containing almost nothing except sport, crime and astrology, sensational five-cent novelettes, films oozing with sex, and sentimental songs which were composed entirely by mechanical means"

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#153

Post by itamarst »

y4mi wrote: post #149
itamarst wrote: post #140

This article has some good points, but it also suffers a lot from the author's extremely narrow horizons: - It's very US-centric. Public universities are AFAIK free or very cheap in Germany for example. The reason for rising costs in the US is in large part about cuts to government support for higher education. - It's very upper-middle-class in perspective, with no understanding of anyone who isn't doing well. Americ…

> It's very US-centric thats a strange critique considering the article. i mean the whole thing just focuses on the american society... why is that a problem? > [quote] This is absolute nonsense While this quote is indeed nonesens with no context, thats not exactly what the author meant there Back then, quick organization and initiatives weren't really possible. Take each of your example and check just how long it to…

The general argument is "X has this impact on Y" (in this case, Internet and US). Given that X is global, that the Internet impacts many countries, a reasonable perspective would involve at least looking at how X impacted A, B, and C, which might prove that the impact is merely correlation in the time, not causation. Or it might strengthen the argument.

But in its current form it's a universal claim backed by very limited evidence (and ignoring evidence that suggests other causes than the Internet).

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#154

Post by itamarst »

nitrogen wrote: post #145
itamarst wrote: post #140

This article has some good points, but it also suffers a lot from the author's extremely narrow horizons: - It's very US-centric. Public universities are AFAIK free or very cheap in Germany for example. The reason for rising costs in the US is in large part about cuts to government support for higher education. - It's very upper-middle-class in perspective, with no understanding of anyone who isn't doing well. Americ…

> wacky retirement-lottery scheme whose details I forget Could it be this? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tontine

Did some searching, turns out I was actually thinking of the the Townsend Plan, which was not actually wacky (I misremembered the details) and helped pave the way for Social Security. The wikipedia article leaves out a lot of details, if memory serves it had widespread support.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#155

Post by witcherchaos »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #138
akarma wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're generalizing 62,984,828 Americans. When you look at a number like that, combined with all the possible reasons that people voted for Trump (think those who validly wished for a Ross Perot victory in 1992), it just seems rude and unnecessary to say this.

I get why you'd think it's rude/unnecessary, but I don't think it's a generalization to say it's very unlikely that anywhere near half of the audience of a blog post like this is on Team Trump. I'm sure there are Trump supporters that read and digest this kind of content regularly, but any familiarity with the typical cultural attitudes and media consumption patterns of Trump supporters makes it obvious that that's f…

There's plenty of Trump supporters in silicon valley. We may be democrats previously, but we really like what Trump did against China, even though the large corporations (who owns mass media) hated the move. Trump rejuvenated the economy, increased competitiveness of American firms, and helped to increase jobs and wages for American workers. He stood up against dictatorship China and is winning the trade war. He is a very flawed man, but he did great for America

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#156

Post by witcherchaos »

martythemaniak wrote: post #75
miloshadzic wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget Idiocracy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGUNPMPrxvA

Well, the US does currently have a president who got (at least partly) famous in the Pro Wrestling circuit, so big points there. But it's only a superficial resemblance. President Comacho saw a real problem (lack of food), realized he needed help tacking the issue, sought out literally the smartest person in the world, followed his advice and solved the issue. President Trump makes up problems, staffs his cabinet wit…

The current administration, the one you called Idiocracy, stood up against dictatorship China and exposed the bubble mirage that was the Chinese economy. The Chinese economy is now crashing hard. This current administration did what many said was impossible: wage increases in the age of automation and globalization. This administration has US economy growing at 3%, when most other global economies are going into recession. This administration gave jobs and money back to the main street people, when corporations were eager to give those to the prison labors in China.

You might be reading/watching the mainstream media too much.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#157

Post by base698 »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #138
akarma wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're generalizing 62,984,828 Americans. When you look at a number like that, combined with all the possible reasons that people voted for Trump (think those who validly wished for a Ross Perot victory in 1992), it just seems rude and unnecessary to say this.

I get why you'd think it's rude/unnecessary, but I don't think it's a generalization to say it's very unlikely that anywhere near half of the audience of a blog post like this is on Team Trump. I'm sure there are Trump supporters that read and digest this kind of content regularly, but any familiarity with the typical cultural attitudes and media consumption patterns of Trump supporters makes it obvious that that's f…

You're taking a characterization of Trump supporters created by the media for entertainment assuming that is the world writ large.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#158

Post by rapht »

As some others have said, a well-thought-out article on the larger scale impacts of the Internet as a new medium of communication - just get past the intro.

In the end, it's interesting because it puts together a number of intuitions you may already have about the upcoming western social-democratic crisis stemming from the loss of authoritative sources of information.

What is missing is actually ideas about what system we should collectively aim for in order to restore trust in actual truths and distrust in actual falsehoods - because of course, you can't have a society without a shared framework for that.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#159

Post by specialist »

itamarst wrote: post #140

This article has some good points, but it also suffers a lot from the author's extremely narrow horizons: - It's very US-centric. Public universities are AFAIK free or very cheap in Germany for example. The reason for rising costs in the US is in large part about cuts to government support for higher education. - It's very upper-middle-class in perspective, with no understanding of anyone who isn't doing well. Americ…

I'm stuck on the notion of "information scarcity". Maybe "constrained" would be a better metaphor?

I'm also unimpressed by any thesis that omits preferential attachment (begetting winner takes all) or transaction costs.

Re: What the Hell Is Going On? Effects of Information Abundance

#160

Post by cdiddy2 »

martythemaniak wrote: post #10

One thing that I find interesting is how none of the great dystopian works of the 20th century featured celebrities as the ruling class. The antagonists are like Bond villains, smart, sophisticated, rational, cruel. A worthy adversary you could respect and feel good about struggling against. Our reality is that we've made our lives so advanced and comfortable, that our fantasies can try to become our reality. I guess…

Hunger Games was sort of painting celebrities as the ruling class
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