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Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

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Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#161
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hard cut of caffeine after 10:30 AM, cutting blue light (and screens if possible) after sunset, and if nothing else having a kid can do it. Or, try camping for a few days. Try not to look at your phone after sunset.

Camping is like an immediate fix for me. You just naturally wake up with the first rays of sunlight.

I think it also helps a lot to move around all day (as one does while camping). I feel so much better.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#162
post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I'm afraid that this suggestion is a bit glib and simplistic: there are people (my S.O. being one of them) who despite no alcohol, no artificial light after dinner and all doing "all the right things" still can't fall asleep before 2-3am, which then leads to 4- or 5-hour nights all week long. For them, catching up on the weekend is the only solution (albeit an imperfect one).

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#163
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jordan Peterson is as scientific as a social scientist gets. He cites papers and describes the work of past scientists and his premises are evidence driven. He is a professor; a professional academic. He has his opinions, positions and motives just like anyone else, but is open about them. If anything he is a rock star lecturer that exemplifies how informative, accurate, sincere, progressive, intimate, and inspiring…

> If he offends you then you either have issues or don't understand him or both, but he would gladly engage with you either way. Hmmm no we can also think he uses mostly weak papers with dodgy methodologies and over-generalizes the conclusions. Not all scientists within a field agree with any given scientist of that field, that would be ludicrous.

How do you know he uses mostly weak papers? That is an overgeneralization. And why would he? Which papers should he have chosen?

And I never said all scientists agree. Typical straw man. But what I will say is there are plenty of climate change deniers that claim to be scientists.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#164
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia has had their chance. No one believes "studies" about personal life choices any more if the results conflict with each other every 5 years. It's just publication pressure (or worse, as other commenters have hinted at).

> Academia has had their chance Oh, so what should we go to now in order to try to expand our knowledge about this? What are you suggesting?

Let's try the Eleatics next, or any of the other presocratics.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#165
I currently have a newborn and I know this too well from experience! I can get a few extra hours on weekends but it definitely does not help once the work week starts again.

One advantage of the extra time is that I finally have beaten my favorite game FTL with every ship! With our first baby I read through all the Game of Thrones books (I was hoping book 6 would be out by the time this kid was born!!)

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#166
post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I'm afraid that this suggestion is a bit glib and simplistic: there are people (my S.O. being one of them) who despite no alcohol, no artificial light after dinner and all doing "all the right things" still can't fall asleep before 2-3am, which then leads to 4- or 5-hour nights all week long. For them, catching up on the weekend is the only solution (albeit an imperfect one).

I think we all agree that these people are the exception to the rule. Just like Elon Musk isn't your typical CEO or Terry A. Davis isn't your typical developer.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#167
post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

Great moralisms, but most of us have a hard stop from sleep at 7something am to go to work. Others of us have stress issues such that falling asleep isn't easy, and you wake up 'naturally' 45 minutes before the alarm with a mind full of worries. The whole idea of 'natural' is normative garbage. Let me guess, you sleep immediately on a plane as soon as doors close, too? We're not all built the same way.

> and you wake up 'naturally' 45 minutes before the alarm with a mind full of worries.

I call that my weekend alarm clock. When I was younger I'd stay up late on the weekends and wake up an appropriate 8-10 hours after I fell asleep. Now I can go to bed whenever and still wake up at 6 am to the thought of "Hey, do you think that crack you noticed yesterday is a sign of foundation problems? When do you want to fix that sink? You really need to think about getting the deck replaced."

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#168
post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I'm afraid that this suggestion is a bit glib and simplistic: there are people (my S.O. being one of them) who despite no alcohol, no artificial light after dinner and all doing "all the right things" still can't fall asleep before 2-3am, which then leads to 4- or 5-hour nights all week long. For them, catching up on the weekend is the only solution (albeit an imperfect one).

indeed many people are biologically wired to be "night owls"; it's a well established individual difference in the psychology literature:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10849238

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but most of us have a hard stop from sleep at 7something am to go to work Well that's a feature of our economy, and a whole other issue. Artifact of the industrial revolution if I'm not mistaken; "8 hrs of sleep, 8 hrs of work, 8hrs of entertainment"; which is obviously a lie and not much more than propaganda, but people seems to put up with it. It doesn't work very well you you add commute time, chores, &c. in the…

Artifact of the industrial revolution if I'm not mistaken; "8 hrs of sleep, 8 hrs of work, 8hrs of entertainment"; which is obviously a lie and not much more than propaganda, but people seems to put up with it. You're not mistaken, just missing the critical detail: it was a demand of the labor movement. An improvement over the nightmare of far longer hours in the early industrial revolution. But we've digressed. > Th…

I'll be honest, all it took me was to learn about it, and I refuse to think that I'm the only one in that position. I used to sit in front of a screen until the very last moment I went to bed, now I read, I go to bed when I'm tired, I avoid alcohol before bed, &c. Look around, in all the companies I went to, 40+ years old people were overweight and had poor posture, that's just the (visible) tip of the iceberg.

A lot of people eat like shit, don't exercise (enough), come back from 8 hours of sitting at a desk to do what ? Sit on a sofa and empty a few beers. After a while, when their body can't "catch up" they feel the effects and wonder what happened.

> But we've digressed.

Yes, too bad HN doesn't really work for longer conversations.

> An improvement over the nightmare of far longer hours in the early industrial revolution. But we've digressed.

Sure, but what is it now ? For most people in 1st world countries it isn't about survival, especially for us, IT workers. Albeit poor people in countries completely rejecting socialism ideas still struggle just as much as 100 years ago. The survival nightmare isn't there anymore. Now we're suffering the blowback of an economy that can't sustain itself without constant growth.

"The necessity of production is so easily proved that any hack philosopher of industrialism can fill ten books with it. Unfortunately for these neo-economist thinkers, these proofs belong to the nineteenth century, a time when the misery of the working classes made the right to work the counterpart of the right to be a slave, claimed at the dawn of time by prisoners about to be massacred. Above all it was a question of surviving, of not disappearing physically. The imperatives of production are the imperatives of survival; from now on, people want to live, not just to survive." - Raoul Vaneigem

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#170
post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

> Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs.

Is that due to the sleep, or the lack of work and general de-stressing?

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