Live data from Hacker News

Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

macrumors.com

161–170 of 200 posts

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#161
post #120
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well obviously I don't agree. First of all from https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/intelpr... you can see that a higher portion of cases escalated from the Federal Circuit get reversed than any other federal circuit. Secondly from https://www.scotusblog.com/2018/12/empirical-scotus-the-heig... we see that over time the Supreme Court has been devoting more and more of its limited energy to overseeing…

Re: Last line. Yep. I do. In fact, the some of the cases your articles refer to directly refer to my amicus curiae contributions. The Federal Circuit was created, in part, to create certainty in patents. They keep trying to make frameworks, but they've all got issues. The Supreme Court doesn't like that they have issues, and blows up their rulings, but does not put anything affirmative back in place. So, functionally…

So you're an intellectual property lawyer? In this debate that gives you a fairly obvious bias. Admittedly it also makes you better informed than me on this topic. But I still feel comfortable disagreeing when my position both makes sense to me, and is supported by other people who I know to be knowledgeable.

You and the Federal Court both seem to believe that trying to make a framework should be the goal. Not everyone agrees. I already brought up https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?art... which is a peer reviewed article, written by a law professor. Her opening paragraph criticizes the Federal Court on the fact that, "It surprisingly resorts to formalistic rules in an area of the law that requires flexibility to adapt to changing technological landscapes." Not long after she notes that they, "...prefer inflexible rules of decision over flexible standards."

My understanding of both quotes is that they are about the framework making that you say the Federal Court is engaged in, and that you criticize the Supreme Court for not doing. But to the extent that the Supreme Court agrees with her opinion, they honestly should be "coming over to stomp on the sand castle" that the Federal Court is erecting, and really should not be erecting their own sand castles in turn.

Now as an external observer, I have a question. More than any other court, the Federal Court is having trouble coming up with opinions that the Supreme Court wishes to affirm. Where does blame belong? With the Federal Court? With the Supreme Court? Or with the challenges of patent law?

I find it unlikely that patent law is uniquely impossible to get right. Other courts get along with the Supreme Court without so much trouble. And therefore I am inclined to place the blame on the Federal Court.

As another data point, consider that the goal of patent law should be, To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries. But practitioners widely agree that software patents do not noticeably promote the progress of science and useful arts. Agreement is even more widespread that the current legal regime has encouraged patent trolls in a way that actively hinders the progress of science and useful arts.

I am not simply talking about extreme activists like Richard Stallman. Those are my views, and I have 3 patents to my name with a 4th applied for and a 5th applied for by Amazon that I think should have had my name on it. You'll find a fairly balanced version of this view laid out by Paul Graham in http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html where he says, among other things, "Patent trolls, it seems safe to say, are evil. I feel a bit stupid saying that, because when you're saying something that Richard Stallman and Bill Gates would both agree with, you must be perilously close to tautologies."

Back to the Federal Court. There is no real question that their pro-patent decisions and precedents have helped create the patent trolling problem. I am not surprised that a former chief justice (Randall Rader) had to step down due to his over-promotion of a pro-patent litigator. If I had to bet money, I would bet that there are still judges on that court who should step down for similar reasons, but haven't.

Which means that I think that the progress of science and the useful arts would be promoted if most software patents were invalidated. Including all that have my name on them. Admittedly it is likely to be hard to convince you and your professional colleagues of that. Because, as Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal judges aren't the sort that get voted out. They're appointed for life. The degree and direction of corruption within a judge bear a striking resemblance to the president who appoints them.

Leaving the political opinions aside (especially since I don't vote in the USA), I believe that USA has one strong/clean/independent Justice system. There is transparency. I don't believe that in many other modern/western countries there is so much attention to the top judges. I understand that people don't like either "Barack", or "Donald", and others before them, especially calling them by their first name as if th…

If the chief executive of a water company or an electricity company became a household name, my first assumption would be that there was some kind of scandal. Infrastructure is supposed to be boring.

Britain has a supreme court, but I couldn't name any of the judges. They don't tend to make particularly controversial decisions, nor are they divided along partisan lines. I vaguely recall The Daily Mail describing some high court judges as "enemies of the people" due to some sort of Brexit-related shenanigans, but it all blew over within a couple of days; the overwhelming consensus was that the headline was crass and slanderous. Other than that, I don't recall the last time the judiciary were particularly newsworthy.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#163
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is true, also remember how powerful the US supreme court is. Due to a combination of common law (binding precedent) and an old, difficult to change, ambiguous constitution, the US Supreme Court is arguably even more powerful than the president.

> While this is true, also remember how powerful the US supreme court is. Due to a combination of common law (binding precedent) and an old, difficult to change, ambiguous constitution, the US Supreme Court is arguably even more powerful than the president. To me, this is an amazing aspect of the American justice system. Nine individuals, chosen over a broad range of years, are the last bastion of hope in keeping the…

SCOTUS is quite restrained, meaning that a lot of the power is in the lower courts.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal judges aren't the sort that get voted out. They're appointed for life. The degree and direction of corruption within a judge bear a striking resemblance to the president who appoints them.

Leaving the political opinions aside (especially since I don't vote in the USA), I believe that USA has one strong/clean/independent Justice system. There is transparency. I don't believe that in many other modern/western countries there is so much attention to the top judges. I understand that people don't like either "Barack", or "Donald", and others before them, especially calling them by their first name as if th…

> But just for fun, let's see if anyone from Belgium, UK, Greece, Spain, etc can name 5 top judges. I, for one, cannot :)

I wonder how many people can name Norman Borlaug and what he did vs Adolf Hitler and what he did.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#165

The only thing that Apple is doing is getting out of Collin County, Texas--by closing Plano and Frisco locations. If you look here: http://www.txed.uscourts.gov/?q=court-locator you'll see that Collin County is in Eastern District of Texas. So technically speaking, moving out of Plano and Frisco and moving to Dallas County will solve their patent troll issue.

Plano and Frisco are affluent suburbs though, probably pretty heavily iPhone fans. The local community won't be happy. Traffic is pretty bad, and DFW is sprawling. If I were Apple, I'd make some effort to communicate the reasons to the locals.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#166
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wouldn't be smart, because then they'd still have a physical presence in the district. The sooner they can lock the door and terminate the lease, the sooner they get the benefit of not being located there.

I'm suggesting taping the note to the inside of the door on your way out. I don't think that counts as presence. The locals aren't likely to know why it closed. Seems reasonable to me that they know.

The locals will know because Apple entirely leaving your district will make the local news and people will say why.

This "flip the bird" nonsense is a terrible idea. No one will even believe it. They believe subtly hinted things better.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#167
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm suggesting taping the note to the inside of the door on your way out. I don't think that counts as presence. The locals aren't likely to know why it closed. Seems reasonable to me that they know.

The locals will know because Apple entirely leaving your district will make the local news and people will say why. This "flip the bird" nonsense is a terrible idea. No one will even believe it. They believe subtly hinted things better.

"flip the bird nonsense"? I didn't include any suggestion like that at all.

We've moved, where to and sometimes why, in the door of the now vacant spot is very common.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#168

Here's something I don't quite understand, and where some of this feels a little hypocritical: Apple, the most valuable company in the world, could be working to reform patent law in order to make this a non-issue. Everyone talks about US politics as pay-to-play, it should be possible for Apple, Google, MS, Amazon, etc., to lobby for Software Patents, for example, to be reclassified as "math" and therefor not patenta…

Everyone talks about US politics as pay-to-play

Only people who don't know what that are talking about talk this way.

Or also, I suppose, people who are lying to you in order to sell you something.

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#169
post #145

Having recently watched The Patent Scam, I wish more companies would follow suit here and exit EDOT, maybe then people would wake up and demand that these corrupt judges are removed from the bench! edit: correction made per child comment.

Federal judges are appointed by the President and serve for life. There are possibly corruption problems in the Eastern district of Texas, but the root problems are the patent laws themselves, and its the elected members of congress who can fix that.

I'm curious about another root problem: why are corporate civil cases heard by a jury in the first place? Never mind that juries are bound to be influenced when billions of dollars are at stake[1], how about the fact that these cases are both technically and legally complex?

I'm not an expert in this stuff but as far as I can tell the USA is unique in allowing juries to hear this sort of trial, even among countries with a right to jury in a criminal trial.

1. E.g. the Samsung skating rink in front of the Marshall Texas courthouse

Re: Apple to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas to Fight Patent Trolls

#170
post #165

The only thing that Apple is doing is getting out of Collin County, Texas--by closing Plano and Frisco locations. If you look here: http://www.txed.uscourts.gov/?q=court-locator you'll see that Collin County is in Eastern District of Texas. So technically speaking, moving out of Plano and Frisco and moving to Dallas County will solve their patent troll issue.

Plano and Frisco are affluent suburbs though, probably pretty heavily iPhone fans. The local community won't be happy. Traffic is pretty bad, and DFW is sprawling. If I were Apple, I'd make some effort to communicate the reasons to the locals.

Yes, definitely lots of Apple users in Collin County, and the Willow Bend store and Frisco stores were always packed. Galleria location isn't that far from Plano or Frisco, so I'm sure it won't be a problem. Most probably work in the North Dallas area anyway.
Post reply on HN