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The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

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Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#161

Post by richardhod »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #123
blackrock wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on what you want out of it. In western sci-fi, the story exists to make the reader feel good about themselves. At least, the successful ones are like this. It makes for good movies, and good story telling. Think about that for a moment. All the western sci-fi that we've been used to: Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, etc.. All these stories are not really science fiction, but rather, scie…

I don't think the cliche Hollywood ending that presents the feel good about yourself, happy resolution, complete with positive family messages at the end of absolutely sodding everything is anything to do with good story telling. It's just the very tired Hollywood cliche that's proven time and again can draw an American family audience. It's not an either/or. Books are often much, much darker than Hollywood adaptatio…

Indeed, the GP ignores the whole Cyberpunk scifi movement and the effect it has had on almost all scifi writing since Gibson et al.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#162

Post by TeMPOraL »

ethbro wrote: post #155
TeMPOraL wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel that the book is bifurcated amongst readers who read for literary quality vs conceptual quality. Yup. I'm strongly in the latter camp (as I'm fond of saying, if I wanted to read character development , I'd pick up literally any other genre - everything nowadays is about people and their emotional dramas; I like my sci-fi when it's about ideas). The whole Trilogy is pretty dense in concepts, including some in…

Curious, have you read Asimov? Specifically Foundation?

Not yet. I've been meaning to, and recently my wife bought me hardcover Foundation books for my birthday; it's my next fiction to read after I finish the newest Safehold book!

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#163

Post by otabdeveloper1 »

stone-monkey wrote: post #80
Jerry2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve been told it gets better after the first book, but why would I subject myself to another book after my experience of the first? I was not a huge fan of the first book either but saw the potential. Second book, The Dark Forest, is the greatest of the three (IMO anyway). Third book is also amazing. Definitely 'endure' reading through the first one and then you'll be rewarded with 2nd and 3rd.

The second is my favorite by far as well, but I find it funny how it's described as amazing Sci-Fi when I have to describe the plot. Half the book is spoilers The result of granting a nerd all the resources of the Earth at his disposal. He promptly uses it to find the perfect waifu and seduces her in his idyllic European villa. That's not Sci-Fi; That's a power fantasy as old as time.

> That's a power fantasy as old as time.

Yes, if by "old" you mean "dumb".

I couldn't finish this insufferably cringe-worthy book. Sorry.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#164

Post by ethbro »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #162
ethbro wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, have you read Asimov? Specifically Foundation?

Not yet. I've been meaning to, and recently my wife bought me hardcover Foundation books for my birthday; it's my next fiction to read after I finish the newest Safehold book!

I'm guessing you'll enjoy it, from you preferences!

The Asimovian characters-as-plot-revealers isn't for everyone, but he does an entrancing job.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#165

Post by rsynnott »

Hasknewbie wrote: post #43
Jerry2 wrote: post #34

Cixin Liu's 'Remembrance of Earth’s Past' trilogy are the greatest sci-fi books I've ever read. I still remember when I picked the first volume and than patiently waited for a very long time for translations of the next books to arrive. The wait was well worth it. He manages to put his characters into seemingly insurmountable situations and it feels like he won't be able to write his way out of them but somehow he ma…

I read the first book in that trilogy, and it struck me how much it was a product of the Hu Jintao era. Under the presidency of Xi Jinping this book would have never been allowed. Way too snarky about the Cultural Revolution (I mean, in it there's a university professor that gets literally lynched by 'revolutionary' students because he refuses to parrot some party line. And that's just chapter one), and the Xi admini…

I did wonder about this; I was a little surprised how political it was (both with the Cultural Revolution bit and more generally).

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#166

Post by TeMPOraL »

ethbro wrote: post #156
TeMPOraL wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A solid, game-theoretic explanation for the Fermi paradox based on assumptions of no FTL and technological growth being sudden and rapid, both seemingly applicable to our universe.

I couldn't help but read that with historical-political overtones, which in light of 19th century Chinese history and the modern CCP seemed terrifying. I also took issue with the implicit assumption that two civilizations cooperating would develop no faster than a single civilization. Or, another way, that all civilizations would climb the same technology ladder the same way. On Earth, historical competition between…

> I also took issue with the implicit assumption that two civilizations cooperating would develop no faster than a single civilization.

I don't remember that assumption; I felt the implicit assumption was that development of any civilization can experience unpredictable rapid acceleration, so even if two civilizations cooperated, it doesn't help them much against others out there.

> Or, another way, that all civilizations would climb the same technology ladder the same way.

That I think was explicitly denied in the basic axioms of Dark Forest theory - again, civilization's technological level can jump unpredictably.

> historical competition between nation-states has suggested a very different reality

The core axiom of Dark Forest theory is that lack of FTL makes communication delays be of the same length as periods of possible technological leap-aheads, which makes cooperation unlikely and contact too dangerous. On the scale of our planet, that never applied. Communications between civilizations that knew about each other were on the order of months, and technological developments tended to make that delay shorter.

Dark Forest translated to Earth would be as if I noticed your sail ships, sent you a hello from my steam civilization, only to get preemptively hit by an ICBM you've managed to build in 200 years it took for my message to reach you.

--

Maybe there was more historical politics in this book than I noticed; I'm not well versed on history of China, and thus lack necessary context. I'd love to learn more, if that is so.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#167

Post by TeMPOraL »

ethbro wrote: post #164
TeMPOraL wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet. I've been meaning to, and recently my wife bought me hardcover Foundation books for my birthday; it's my next fiction to read after I finish the newest Safehold book!

I'm guessing you'll enjoy it, from you preferences! The Asimovian characters-as-plot-revealers isn't for everyone, but he does an entrancing job.

Thanks! I'll be sure to remark on it the next time the "your favourite sci-fi" thread pops up on HN :).

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#168

Post by TeMPOraL »

da_chicken wrote: post #160
mercutio2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. I couldn’t stand the first book of this series. Interminable, I never built any empathy for any of the characters. I’ve been told it gets better after the first book, but why would I subject myself to another book after my experience of the first? Anyway, to each their own, but as a huge sci-fi fan, I generally love the Hugo winners and nominees. The Chinese sci-fi that’s been nominated has all left me cold.

> I couldn’t stand the first book of this series. Interminable, I never built any empathy for any of the characters. I didn't entirely have this problem (though it was more difficult), but I had a problem with some of the plot points. Namely, (minor spoiler) scientists killing themselves when science did something they couldn't explain. I just couldn't buy that people who dedicate their lives to discovery would do th…

> Namely, (minor spoiler) scientists killing themselves when science did something they couldn't explain.

This was more of "science turned into magic", experiments started to produce arbitrary nonsense, though I don't remember if they realized the cause at the time. That said, I found it weak and weird too; I'd expect those scientists to try much harder before giving up.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#169

Post by mark_l_watson »

aedron wrote: post #157
infinii wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you recommend reading Ball Lightning before the TBP Trilogy if I've never read any of this...because it's a prequel?

I've read (and thoroughly enjoyed) them all, didn't even know Ball Lightning was a prequel (it was written after the trilogy). Perhaps some repeat characters? I don't believe there are any spoilers either way.

I only know about it being sort-of a prequel because of the afterward material in the audible audio book. The books can be enjoyed in either reading order.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#170

Post by TeMPOraL »

ethbro wrote: post #158
stevenhuang wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's what you think then you seem to have a very narrow view of what constitutes hard scifi. For example, the stretching as a recall is from the part about the elementary particles being folded into higher dimensions. Either you've dismissed that as fantasy or it seems your take on "hard" scifi is wholly unimaginative.

It's not dismissive to call it fantasy. Do we have any scientific evidence that any of higher-dimensional antics in 3BP are possible? If not, then the author is making up his own world building rules (completely acceptable). But that makes the story more akin to scientific fantasy than hard scientific fiction. And unless the English translation excised a LOT of technical details, there are some huge leaps of scientif…

There's a rule I remember, that in hard-ish sci-fi, the author gets to invent one unrealistic thing. I wouldn't put Cixin Liu's trilogy as hard hard sci-fi, as it invents a few more, but all in all, there aren't that many "fantasy devices" there. It definitely has a flavour of hardness.
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