Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 251 posts

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#161

Post by ada1981 »

drb91 wrote: post #71
michaco33 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the industry responding with "we cant really know guys, right?" I'm throwing away my Advil right now. Screw that.

OTOH acetaminophen is known to be toxic; is there an alternative here for non narcotic inflammation, fever, and pain relief that is shown NOT to have tradeoffs for use?

I just started using CBD, it’s possible it’s just placebo, but I feel no more pain in my joints in the Am, am more relaxed, less anxious, more agreeable and more aware of my body.

I’m taking 5Mg capsules 2x a day.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#162

Post by klibertp »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #84
snibss wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point being: it's a psychological study, in relation to behavior and emotion, which cannot be measured with NEARLY the same degree of ease or precision as sex-related endocrine effects. It's behavior, and thus potentially non-replicable. It's soft science at best. Is someone being a jerk? Is it some strange long term NSAID side-effect? Why are they being so cold and callous? Is this just an artifact of social bia…

As a cognitive neuroscientist you may guess my opinion about your loosely constructed and ranting 'argument' about my field of study. While I will not vouch for the study I cited above, I will vouch for the scientific integrity of my colleagues.

It's an interesting study. One thing I'm not sure about is: were the participants in (any kind of) pain originally? Was it chronic, or acute?

Intuitively, and from my experience of 15 years of fighting with chronic pain, it's incredibly hard to emphasize with anything at all when you're in serious pain. It's hard to even think about anything other than pain. I'd say - again, from the perspective of a chronic pain patient - that reducing the pain with medication makes it possible to have empathy towards others. Obviously, I have no neurochemical data to back this up, I'm just saying how it looks like to me, psychologically.

If I had to guess, I'd say that being in pain does little good for empathy and it's a memory of being in pain that counts. When I'm in pain I'm not going to care too much about yours, but when I was in pain, and I remember it clearly, I'm going to care a lot.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#163

Post by ada1981 »

logicchains wrote: post #131
stolsvik wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you not help your kids when they are in pain?! This is truly shocking to me, it is definitely a cruel and inhumane sentiment.

Painkillers are not side effect free; if the pain is something minor, like a bruised knee or normal headache, it's not unreasonable to decide that experiencing the pain is a better choice than risking the side effects of a drug, which in uncommon cases can be much more severe and long term. It's not as clear cut as "helping" vs not helping, as unfortunately we don't yet have any side effect free painkillers.

You could also teach your kids meditation techniques to be deployed when in pain.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#164

Post by sodosopa »

Geimfari wrote: post #153
eikenberry wrote: post #19

So back to good old aspirin? Acetaminophen slowly kills your liver and Ibuprofen messes with testosterone production.

Please note that acetaminophen/paracetamol is incredibly safe at normal doses and does not kill your liver. It is only when you attempt to overdose (or if you have severely limited liver function) that you run out of the liver enzymes that break it down, causing liver damage.

At normal doses, Acetaminophen can trigger Stevens-Johnson Syndrome and toxic epidermal necrolysis. You're lucky if you wind up with rashes as opposed to skin falling off.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#165

Post by jtc331 »

stolsvik wrote: post #125
logicchains wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a tempor…

These kind of sentiments really scare and provokes me. Telling anyone that they shouldn't alleviate kids fever and/or pain is absolutely revolting to me.

What if the fever is actually the body’s way of killing the infection? You’re saying it’s scary that someone would want to prioritize recovery from the root cause rather than prolonging the root cause in favor of relief of mild symptoms?

That’s the more shocking belief from my perspective.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#166

Post by Flashtoo »

drb91 wrote: post #71
michaco33 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the industry responding with "we cant really know guys, right?" I'm throwing away my Advil right now. Screw that.

OTOH acetaminophen is known to be toxic; is there an alternative here for non narcotic inflammation, fever, and pain relief that is shown NOT to have tradeoffs for use?

Acetaminophen/paracetamol is really only toxic in higher doses due to its metabolism, as only the intermediate metabolite NAPQI is toxic, but that cannot build up in low doses.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#167

Post by naasking »

drb91 wrote: post #71
michaco33 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the industry responding with "we cant really know guys, right?" I'm throwing away my Advil right now. Screw that.

OTOH acetaminophen is known to be toxic; is there an alternative here for non narcotic inflammation, fever, and pain relief that is shown NOT to have tradeoffs for use?

> OTOH acetaminophen is known to be toxic

This is news to me. What exactly does "toxic" mean? Do you have a citation I can read?

Acetaminophen is not for inflammation anyway.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#168

Post by gameswithgo »

jey wrote: post #2

"Ibuprofen and hypogonadism — bench to bedside to misinterpreted hype?" at https://www.nature.com/articles/nrurol.2018.26 : > A recent study suggests modulation of luteinizing hormone signalling within the hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis and downstream transcriptional effects caused by sustained ibuprofen use. However, this study cannot be used to draw any clinical conclusions regarding effects of ibuprofen on ma…

>However, this study cannot be used to draw any clinical conclusions regarding effects of ibuprofen on male androgenic or reproductive health

why not?

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#169

Post by gameswithgo »

rjf72 wrote: post #55
defertoreptar wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the treatment group took 600mg ibuprofen daily for 14 to 44 days to induce the reported effect of compensated hypogonadism That phrasing is misleading. We don't know if it takes 600 mg for 14 days "to induce" hypogonadism. The study didn't test for that. It only tested if there would be an effect, and as with most pilot experiments, it did so cheaply and quickly. That's the idea of small sample size experiments suc…

600mg is not a large dose. Ibuprofen over the counter recommends 400mg (two tablets) every 4-6 hours with up to 6 tablets (1200mg) per day.

and doctors will commonly suggest taking 4 tablets 4 times a day

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#170

Post by naasking »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #154
conanthe wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kratom / Cannabis oh wait these are illegal so big pharma can milk their poisons.

Cannabis causes low T and gynecomastia, so not really

I looked for studies supporting your statement. The evidence is conflicting, and there appears to be no conclusive evidence one way or the other, although some people certainly are fond of repeating this as if it's fact.
Post reply on HN