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Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

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Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#161

Post by srtjstjsj »

im3w1l wrote: post #108
ourmandave wrote: post #19

Back in the mid-80's my local CCs were teaching COBOL, JCL and Fortran. Probably because of that mainframe they had chilling in the server room. Personal computer courses were non-existent, except for one day "How To Use Your PC or Apple" class.

What are you trying to say? I lack context here. That community colleges were behind the curve? Ahead of the curve? Or is there even a message?

Behind the curve; not up to date on the latest tech advancements. This is common criticism of the "lower-tier" schools generating "business process automation" coders for old industries like healthcare and manufacturing.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#162

Post by srtjstjsj »

ss2003 wrote: post #61
montrose wrote: post #20

If this trend is real it will be really good for social mobility.

I don't think so. Having a degree from CC marks you as from the lower class. Upper level and prestigious positions tend to be filled with people just like those already there. There was a good study on this http://www.asanet.org/journals/ASR/Dec12ASRFeature.pdf

"Elite Professional Service Firms" is not he tech industry. In the tech industry, people can get ahead by doing good engineering work, mostly regardless of background. In "Elite Professional Services", no productive work is being done, just PR and marketing and CYA-management for clients.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#163

Post by srtjstjsj »

throwawayjava wrote: post #114
dgbarnes wrote: post #37

As someone who's attended a community college both in my undergraduate career and again in preparation for grad school, this is something I think about quite a bit. Overall I'm pretty happy with my experiences studying at community college, and I'm of the mind that for most subjects, you can get a good education there. While I think it might be possible to get a decent education in preparation for a software developm…

I wish I could upvote this a million times. Your first point is 100% spot on. Your second point deserves a caveat: CS does mean something at colleges/universities. they almost all follow the ACM model curriculum: - CS I -> CS II -> Data Structures - Discrete Math and Calculus I - A smattering of available electives from a few fairly uniform buckets (SE,DB,OOP; OS,PL; ML/AI; theory,algorithms). Contents of courses cha…

You don't really need an associates in CS foundations, since all the "CS" part of CS is upper level (except for the most advanced students who start elite Bachelors universities with 1-2 years of university coursework from high school). Just take some basic liberal arts math and intro programming during your AA, then you are ready to apply for CS Backelors program.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#164

Post by srtjstjsj »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #129

The big issue I have had when I went from Community College to a four year college is that some of your credits don't transfer which means more time spent in College.

That's generally because (some of) the course work is too low-level /remedial. If you aren't ready for university at high school graduation, then you need to take the extra time. If you are ready, you need to challenge yourself at the rate that university students do if you want to keep up (which may need some good advising that is hard to find, point granted).

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#165

Post by srtjstjsj »

forapurpose wrote: post #56

I think community colleges are great, but they also are used to reframe the issues away from the real problems and solutions: First, employers are only interested in what you can do for them, immediately. They are not interested in you or the rest of your life either 'horizontally' (the very many other aspects of your life, from individual to parent to citizen to homeowner to intellectual to whatever) or vertically (…

I don't understand your argument. You can get an MBA after community college. MBA programs are for people who already have work experience.

College tuition increases astronomically due to bad govt subsidies and poorly--financially-educated teenagers making purchasing decisions.

Community colleges aren't "second-rate" compared to the plethora of for-profit and low-quality private universities.

2-year Community colleges are a stepping stone to 4-year degrees.

Do poor kids deserve better K-12 education so they can succeed in the same 4-year programs that rich kids do? Sure, but colleges can't fix that. It's crazy to also deny college education to kids just because they already got screwed over in K-12.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#166

Post by forapurpose »

srtjstjsj wrote: post #165
forapurpose wrote: post #56

I think community colleges are great, but they also are used to reframe the issues away from the real problems and solutions: First, employers are only interested in what you can do for them, immediately. They are not interested in you or the rest of your life either 'horizontally' (the very many other aspects of your life, from individual to parent to citizen to homeowner to intellectual to whatever) or vertically (…

I don't understand your argument. You can get an MBA after community college. MBA programs are for people who already have work experience. College tuition increases astronomically due to bad govt subsidies and poorly--financially-educated teenagers making purchasing decisions. Community colleges aren't "second-rate" compared to the plethora of for-profit and low-quality private universities. 2-year Community college…

> You can get an MBA after community college.

I wonder if you can get an MBA that's worth anything. I doubt any top tier program accepts many CC students.

> College tuition increases astronomically due to bad govt subsidies and poorly--financially-educated teenagers making purchasing decisions.

They are due to making tuition more market-priced, and according to research I've read, due to a reduction in public funding. It's also due to colleges raising tuition rather than focusing on their mission of educating people; nobody is forcing them.

> It's crazy to also deny college education to kids just because they already got screwed over in K-12.

Nobody suggested that. I said quality college education availability should be expanded.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#167

Post by jdc0589 »

oflannabhra wrote: post #83

My state has a network of community and technical colleges. There is a program that allows one to get their Associates degree through community colleges, then transfer to a state school and continue paying community college tuition. 10 years ago, this allowed for earning an engineering degree for $2k a year, or $8-10k. In my experience, community colleges were very much viewed as remedial. I’d guess that many of the…

man, reading these comments is REALLY validating my choice going to a small University. I was THE ONLY PERSON in my operating systems class, and most CS classes had less than 20 people.

Unsurprisingly the school shut the department down, but it was GREAT.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#168

Post by [deleted] »

skookumchuck wrote: post #66
freehunter wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Community colleges really are underrated. In a world where increasingly a bachelor's degree does not guarantee a job, university education is super expensive, and especially in fields where a bachelor's degree is not necessary (I've never had an interview where they asked about my college education), vocational schools are the place to be. Four-year universities put big emphasis on well-rounded educations, so you're…

> math classes You really shouldn't avoid math if you want to be an educated person. Math is the key to the universe.

[deleted]

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#169

Post by throwawayjava »

srtjstjsj wrote: post #163
throwawayjava wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could upvote this a million times. Your first point is 100% spot on. Your second point deserves a caveat: CS does mean something at colleges/universities. they almost all follow the ACM model curriculum: - CS I -> CS II -> Data Structures - Discrete Math and Calculus I - A smattering of available electives from a few fairly uniform buckets (SE,DB,OOP; OS,PL; ML/AI; theory,algorithms). Contents of courses cha…

You don't really need an associates in CS foundations, since all the "CS" part of CS is upper level (except for the most advanced students who start elite Bachelors universities with 1-2 years of university coursework from high school). Just take some basic liberal arts math and intro programming during your AA, then you are ready to apply for CS Backelors program.

> Just take some basic liberal arts math and intro programming during your AA, then you are ready to apply for CS Bachelors program. You don't really need an associates in CS foundations

Well, you can say the same for pretty much every curriculum ever: "we don't need a named degree, just have students figure out what courses they need to take".

Concretely, here's what happens in practice. A student does not know what to take and tells their counselor they are interested in transferring into a four-year CS degree. So student then ends up in:

- standard college prep courses (Algebra, Calc, and liberal artsy stuff), and

- some totally random stuff for the CS part. Might be programming. Might be VBA (won't transfer) or Java (might transfer). Might be a CISCO prep course. Who knows! And unless the student knows and fights, they end up wasting time.

Making a separate track that's explicitly "pre-college CS" avoids this confusion. And after all, part of the value add of a formal education is that someone who knows what you need to know organizes the curriculum for you.

So what you say is true, but there are still strong advantages for both the student and the institution to having a separate, explicit pre-college track.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#170

Post by zitterbewegung »

srtjstjsj wrote: post #164
zitterbewegung wrote: post #129

The big issue I have had when I went from Community College to a four year college is that some of your credits don't transfer which means more time spent in College.

That's generally because (some of) the course work is too low-level /remedial. If you aren't ready for university at high school graduation, then you need to take the extra time. If you are ready, you need to challenge yourself at the rate that university students do if you want to keep up (which may need some good advising that is hard to find, point granted).

Forgot to mention that my advisors told me that my credits would transfer .
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