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'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#161

Post by kayoone »

erikb wrote: post #63
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #26

I always find it amusing that American companies, be it Amazon or Google, are surprised that people don't want them here. They seem to really believe people love them, whereas in fact people use them because they have to, and put up with problems caused by them also because they have to.

People who work in Tech usually love Google though. They produce usable software, pay well, offer real career opportunities. The only thing Techies don't like about Google is their very american way of doing work. Although the pay might be _much_ worse, the working conditions in pure German software dev companies is usually better.

I am not expecting Google to pay significantly more than market rate salaries in Berlin, why would they ?

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#162

Post by kayoone »

mightyranger57 wrote: post #5
mpweiher wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Google campus will only have 6-10 employees" Kreuzberg is...special.

Why would they build a whole campus just for 10 employees?

It is basically what The Factory is already with its two Locations in Berlin. A place to cowork, for meetups, networking and some startup offices. https://factoryberlin.com/

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#163

Post by marssaxman »

jpatokal wrote: post #109

One important thing that's not at all clear from the article: this is not a campus for Google employees a la Googleplex, but a capital-C Campus run by Google for Entrepreneurs, meaning basically a coworking space/startup incubator that happens to be run by Google. So even if it's built, the people working there won't be Googlers, but random startup people in Berlin. https://www.googleforentrepreneurs.com/campuses/

Thanks! That was really not clear in the article, and after their list of existing Google campuses, I wondered what had happened to Zurich and Sydney...

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#164

Post by arximboldi »

briandear wrote: post #129
arximboldi wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I would be happy to have higher salaries here, they are not really comparable to the US. Here you have a social system (free education, public health insurance) and work way less (hardly 8 hours a day, 25-30 days vacation as normal, etc.). For European standards salaries here are actually rather decent. With the current rent situation, I hope though they rise to the standards of the more affluent German south.

Let’s say you can make €45k in Berlin. Let’s say you can make €90k in the US. “Free” education costs roughly €45k per year. In the US, 2-3 weeks of vacation is normal (for tech jobs,) so let’s say in Germany, you get an additional week. Let’s now say that US workers work an extra 200 hours per year. So “free” education plus an additional week off plus 200 annual hours of less work. Costing €45k per year. In a work we…

25 days of vacation is 5 weeks of vacation, 30 days is 6 (we only count work days.) And by free education I mean from 1 year until university. If you have kids that is a huge difference. Plus sickness, etc, which is expensive over there. Plus, my friends working in the US tell me it is normal to work 50/60 hours there, specially in the companies where you make the big bucks, but maybe you can really work less if you are assertive with your boss and colleagues...?

I still agree that it is financially better to live in the US if you work as senior at Google/Amazon/Facebook scale, because the difference becomes huge. I still prefer Berlin due to live-style issues (50/60 hour work weeks, car life, commutes, no clubbing, overall capitalistic mentality.)

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#165

Post by jk2323 »

V-2 wrote: post #135
jk2323 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the East European countries are not very open and friendly to foreigners. Speak Poland, Czech Republic for example. Travel there and see for yourself. Sometimes it is country specific (e.g. Russians and Germans in Poland) or Ethnic specific (Say Hungary and Poland) or sometimes they hate everyone (speak Czech republic). Travel there to see yourself. Try to bring a foreign looking girl friend. Enjoy. People in…

> Travel there to see yourself. Try to bring a foreign looking girl friend. Enjoy. The condescending tone is uncalled for. As for the advice, I don't really need to travel as I've lived in Poland for my whole life (minus a few years spent abroad / in the UK). I've also been to several countries in the region, and yes I have indeed brought quite a few "foreign looking" friends with me, including an Italian girlfriend.…

" including an Italian girlfriend."

Try to bring an Indian one. Or Chinese.

"I'm sorry if something unpleasant happened to you"

It is less about me. I have been there three times and I can take a lot. On my last trip, I spare you my experiences, I stayed one day in the hotel to work on my computer and my GF came back crying and told me she wants to leave and never come back. On the Train to Budapest I met an American Lady. She said, she would not come back to Prague, people are "harsh".

"but it still wouldn't entitle such sweeping generalizations."

I saw once a statistic about foreigners (can't find it anymore). They were hated the most in the Czech republic, the most welcoming country was Uganda. BTW, I have lined up a trip to Uganda, there is a great music festival every summer.

Make you own experiences. It is not a terrible place, but why go to Prague if you can go to Budapest? Total different bunch already.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#166

Post by jk2323 »

saintPirelli wrote: post #96
fileeditview wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think none of these places (including Berlin) will be the Silicon Valley of Europe just because the salaries are too low. Why would talent leave elsewhere to go to eastern Europe and earn significantly less?

Better schools for your kids, safer cities, better public transport, more and better maintained parks, better local produce. There are a lot of potential reasons for a decision like that.

"Better schools for your kids"

You have better schools in the US if you live in the right neighborhood. Also, getting called "pig eater" is likely not tolerated in the US.

"safer cities" Europe is trying hard to catch up.

"better public transport" The only good thing. Yet, nothing beats public transport in NYC.

"more and better maintained parks" Not sure about this.

"better local produce" If you can afford to buy at Whole Paycheck, you get everything.

"There are a lot of potential reasons for a decision like that." The bottom line is: if you have money, life is better in the states. If you are poor, go to Germany.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#167

Post by jk2323 »

LifeLiverTransp wrote: post #142
jk2323 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the East European countries are not very open and friendly to foreigners. Speak Poland, Czech Republic for example. Travel there and see for yourself. Sometimes it is country specific (e.g. Russians and Germans in Poland) or Ethnic specific (Say Hungary and Poland) or sometimes they hate everyone (speak Czech republic). Travel there to see yourself. Try to bring a foreign looking girl friend. Enjoy. People in…

Czech Republic sort of has a reason for that. They got ripped off after the cold war/ the wall fell - most of the countrys assets (land/buildings) beeing sold of to western investors for cheap. Ironically that is what makes them so good at tech now- if all you got is your head and your skils and no investments to sit on, that blad will be sharp.

"They got ripped off after the cold war/ the wall fell " Also the buildings and land they stole from the Germans? It is a dog eats dog world man!

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#168

Post by erikb »

kayoone wrote: post #161
erikb wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who work in Tech usually love Google though. They produce usable software, pay well, offer real career opportunities. The only thing Techies don't like about Google is their very american way of doing work. Although the pay might be _much_ worse, the working conditions in pure German software dev companies is usually better.

I am not expecting Google to pay significantly more than market rate salaries in Berlin, why would they ?

Good question. And the answer is the difference between companies who just want to make a profit (won't pay above market rate and hire anybody) and companies who want to dominate the world (will pay above market but will take only limited set of ppl).

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#169

Post by mstade »

piva00 wrote: post #101
mstade wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of Estonia, I was at their embassy in Stockholm last fall and they were pushing hard for Tallinn as the next European capital of tech. Nearly every conversation you had with them, regardless of topic, would somehow gravitate toward how great Estonia is to set up a tech shop. Whether because of cheap real estate or the quality of their work force, or the prevalence of craft beer – it was all just a great plac…

Honestly speaking, Tallinn is a boring place. Might be good for business but I don't see it as attractive for people willing to move, maybe in the short-term for a job but it's not a place I'd see many settling in. Go visit it anyway, that's, of course, just my impression, but even living in Stockholm (a place I consider a bit boring for my standards of big city life) I found Tallinn very very dull.

To each their own! :o)

Having lived several years in London, and experienced plenty more cities including NYC and San Francisco I’m more than ready for boring. Indeed, this is why my current home town is Stockholm because I kind of agree with you – it’s a little bit boring and very safe, and I love it!

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#170

Post by biztos »

guywhocodes wrote: post #133
biztos wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely that "cheap Berlin" is rapidly disappearing. Just this morning I was checking real-estate prices[0] for the first time in a few years and was a bit shocked. Folks in Silicon Valley or Munich or Hamburg would probably still find it cheap-ish but AFAIK local salaries have not remotely kept up with this trend. A million Euros for a nice family-sized flat in a good neighborhood is not exotic anymore, b…

As someone traveling between Europe and Asia a lot and a former resident in Berlin. IMO Berlin is far from having an international Airport, it has two European airports but flying there means transiting somewhere. I appreciate Tegel tho, only airport in a capitol I've been able to make a flight when still in the cab 30min before take off. Less than 4h door to door between my appartment in Berlin and my friends in Sto…

I should have included a smiley or something with my swipe at BER. :-)

For the lack of options out of Tegel you can pretty much thank Lufthansa.

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