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Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

nytimes.com

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Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#161

Post by matwood »

baldfat wrote: post #97
Simon_says wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that too high? Then kindly don't drive in Manhattan.

$100 to commute a week isn't to high? When the train cost $27 round trip (off peak) or $38.50 (peak) it is a pain. Also if you have business in NYC you are stuck with either losing the whole day or half a day just to get there. Now Chicago, Atlanta and LA have bad traffic it doesn't cost you a hundred bucks to commute for a week.

> $100 to commute a week isn't to high?

Only counting gas and parking it would be ~$50+/week in my smallish town/city living 10-20 miles away. If you add in all the other car costs it would quickly reach $100/week.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#162

Post by lewis500 »

nikon wrote: post #139
ForHackernews wrote: post #46

The London congestion charge is £11.50, and it works pretty well.

How does it work well? The roads have never been busier.

There are so many exemptions and discounts--e.g., for taxis and private hires and residents---that only a fraction of traffic is charged.

Also, London has changed its road network a lot to favor buses, pedestrians and cyclists. Speeds today are about what they were in 2002 before pricing, but there is more capacity for other modes.

Also there is tons of road construction in London all the time. That harms capacity a lot.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#163

Post by imgabe »

lazerpants wrote: post #58
nwah1 wrote: post #7

Congestion pricing is one of the most economically literate ways to improve traffic, and those funds can be used to improve infrastructure. It isn't so different from surge pricing in ridesharing apps. There is a narrowmindedness on the part of opponents of both congestion pricing and surge pricing, because they are ignoring the obvious point that if they weren't paying the fees they'd be paying in terms of time. Not…

I'm always surprised by the only-in-this-circumstance libertarian philosophy of people who support congestion pricing. I think if you took the exact same logic and applied it to say, schools, supporters would feel completely differently about it. Example: It's really hard to get your child into certain public schools in NYC. Why not start charging $3k a year per child (much less than private schools) at high demand s…

Traffic causes negative externalities: pollution, wasted time, noise, etc.

Public education causes positive externalities: educated populace, a third party to help ensure kids are well taken care of, encouraging people to have children who will grow up to continue society, etc.

Even people who aren't making direct use of public education receive the benefit from it, so it makes sense to encourage it as broadly as possible, not to try to restrict people from it.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#164

Post by smnscu »

paganel wrote: post #126
cozzyd wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprised that NYC doesn't have service in tunnels. CTA has LTE everywhere nowadays. Granted, most of CTA's network is above ground and there are only ~20 miles of underground tracks...

> Surprised that NYC doesn't have service in tunnels. They don't? Damn, then the internet and telecom and providers in the States are really f*cking their customers up, pardon my French, but that's the gentlest way to put it. Let's say that I can understand that the US is a big country and that you cannot lay fiber over such big of an area as dense as it happens in certain parts of Europe, but to not have metro tunne…

I'm gonna guess you also live in Bucharest. Not really a fair comparison, since our Internet is so absurdly (considering nothing else works properly) amazing [1]. ^_^ Jokes aside, yeah, that's what you get when there's a lot of money at play and a longstanding monopoly [2].

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Internet_...

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Telephone_Company

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#165

Post by rthomas6 »

jimmaswell wrote: post #116
rthomas6 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Manhattan was not based around cars, and that's a good thing. It's what allows for such high population density, and so many unique neighborhoods. Allowing so many people to live comfortably and efficiently in its limited space is what give Manhattan many of its most sought-after features: The food, the diversity, the infrastructure, the walkability. We shouldn't design for cars and accommodate for pedestrians, w…

I was imagining widening the roads and replacing crosswalks with bridges while holding everything else pretty much constant. I spent a month in a city like the second picture, at a hotel for job training, and it was annoying that I couldn't safely walk right across the street to the stores over there, but if there were just some bridges it would've been fine. Something else that I've imagined would be cool is a syste…

I see what you're saying. That seems like an acceptable way to make a city walkable while having faster driving. Another idea is some kind of underground road layer under the city. I think the important thing is keeping as much real estate as possible for spaces where people live, work, and eat. That's what is needed anyway to have the population density to produce the tax revenue sufficient for one of these solutions.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#166

Post by ComputerGuru »

paulgb wrote: post #130
rayiner wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm always surprised by the only-in-this-circumstance libertarian philosophy of people who support congestion pricing. We have congestion pricing for schools. Try buying a house near one of the good elementary schools in DC or Chicago.

That may act functionally as a congestion tax for the home buyer, but instead of the tax going to the state where it can be used to fund other schools it ends up being an arbitrary transfer of wealth to homeowners who bought before the school was built.

Property taxes in neighborhoods with good schools are significantly higher here in Chicago. It doesn’t go to the state though, but rather funds the local school district directly.

Note that this still isn't a libertarian approach, as I, hypothetically residing in such a district but sending my hypothetical children to a private school, would still be paying for this service that I am not using; I would be paying for the right to use this but not the actual use of it. It's basic taxation but on a hyperlocal scale.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#167

Post by DontTrustOver25 »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #155
rbcgerard wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also not noted is the portion of people driving in new york city that do not live in new york city...

They're driving in so that the people living there don't have to drive out.

Centers of work and business go wherever the majority goes. They're driving in the city because they don't want to live in the city but they want to work there.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#168

Post by revelation »

hartator wrote: post #148
rsynnott wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how habit-forming driving seems to be. A friend was recently talking about a colleague of his who lives right next to a tram stop and works right next to another stop on the same tram line. 20 minute tram journey, tram every five minutes at peak time. And instead they drive an hour to work at rush hour, because they're from a rural area and are used to driving. Makes no sense to me at all...

I think you have to live in big city and have taken public transportation on a daily basis, to understand the frustations, the dalays, the insecurity, the smell, the crowdness, and the freedom reducing of it.

If you don't want any of that, ride a bike. Of course all the fools driving in the city center make that a a rather perilous undertaking, which is why congestion charges like these are desperately needed.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#169

Post by lg »

nogridbag wrote: post #119
Nav_Panel wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of street parking on Manhattan is free, if you know where to look.

As long as you always return to your vehicle on time. Otherwise that free parking turns into a $115 fine followed by a $185 tow plus the $10 Uber ride to get to the NYPD impound lot downtown. Source: Just got towed. I was fined 15 minutes after I was in violation and towed 5 minutes afterwards.

parking on most streets in NYC, including mine, is free. you would only get towed due to alternate-side parking rules for cleaning. lots of people who don't live anywhere near here (or even in manhattan) take advantage. some building supers actually perform the paid service of parking and retrieving residents' cars in whatever street spots they can find around the city. we need a residential parking permit system to bring control back to neighborhoods and revenue to NYC. the city council has passed this plan but it was killed in Albany because upstate commuters demand free parking in the city.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#170

Post by njarboe »

nwah1 wrote: post #7

Congestion pricing is one of the most economically literate ways to improve traffic, and those funds can be used to improve infrastructure. It isn't so different from surge pricing in ridesharing apps. There is a narrowmindedness on the part of opponents of both congestion pricing and surge pricing, because they are ignoring the obvious point that if they weren't paying the fees they'd be paying in terms of time. Not…

I think most people would support congestion pricing, if all the money collected went to building more road capacity. The people paying to get a fast trip now would be seen (and actually be) supporting faster trips for everyone in the future. Right now it just builds more resentment toward the 1%. Unfortunately this situation is not really possible today as places that so congested to want to use congestion pricing of roads cannot build any more (very expensive and politically impossible). If Musk's Boring company works out and congestion pricing on freeways in LA would pay for new tunnels, I think everyone would be on-board with it.
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