Sugar industry withheld possible evidence of cancer link 50 years ago • Hacker News Board

Re: Sugar industry withheld possible evidence of cancer link 50 years ago

#161

Post by anindha » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 1:20 AM UTC

fattyboy420 wrote: post #155

anindha wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The total amount of sugar is less important than the glycemic load and the insulin response caused. Carrots are high in fibre. "The glycemic index is a value assigned to foods based on how slowly or how quickly those foods cause increases in blood glucose levels" [1] Coca Cola® (63) vs Carrots (39). Higher is worse. [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/glyce...

Coca Cola® (63) vs White Rice (72). Higher is worse. By using that logic, chicken nuggets and Pizza Hut beat plain potatoes. Clearly not a good recipe for a healthy diet.

Both pizza and chicken nuggets are higher in fat and protein so don't spike insulin or blood glucose levels. The preservatives and additives make the Pizza Hut pizza and frozen chicken nuggets unhealthy for other reasons.

If you were making your own baked chicken nuggets or pizza from quality ingredients then they are definitely healthier than potatoes or white rice, assuming the calorie intake was the same.

This is counter-intuitive to most people because of all the misinformation around the benefits of a low-fat diet [1].

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24945404-the-obesity-cod...

Re: Sugar industry withheld possible evidence of cancer link 50 years ago

#162

Post by acdha » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 1:34 AM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #56

qwerty456127 wrote: post #25

The whole phenomenon of sugar and fructose being added to virtually everything is beyond comprehension. There are so many people, fat and slim, saying they don't want to be fat, yet eating foods with added sugar every day. Why not just replace all the added sugar with erythritol, for example? The whole situation with sugar reminds me of the situation with opium in early 19th century China

The reason is that in the 1970s and 80s people started freaking out about fat. Everyone from the FDA to USDA to family doctor was telling people fat was bad. So food producers started making fat-free versions of everything. Only problem is it tasted like shit. So what did they do? They added sugar. So now you have sugar added to everything from salad dressing to pasta sauce to bread and muffins. The latter probably h…

Here’s one of the members of the 1970s guidelines:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1977/01/20/...

“Dr. Mark Hegsted, professor of nutrition at Harvard University and one of the three nutritionists who helped write the report, said: "There will undoubtedly be many people who will say we have not proven our point; we have not demonstrated that the dietary modifications we recommend will yield the dividends expected.

"The question to be asked therefore, is not why should we change our diet, but why not. "What are the risks associated with eating less meat, less fat, less saturated fat, less cholesterol, less sugar, less salt and more fruits, vegetables, unsaturated fat - and cereal products - especially whole-grain cereals? There are none that can be identified and important benefits can be expected."”

I find the history of that fascinating since the Nixon administration felt pressure to do something about the then-dramatic obesity crisis on a time-scale which was too short for the scientific process. They had some of it right (eat your vegetables!) but the big mistakes with fat and salt made the problem so much worse.

Re: Sugar industry withheld possible evidence of cancer link 50 years ago

#163

Post by mpd » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 1:35 AM UTC

Retric wrote: post #43

abawany wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erythritol can cause digestive discomfort for some [1], which is why I suspect it isn't prevalent. It was an eye opener to me how many packaged goods have sugar (HFCS) added, when intuitively it seems there was no good reason for any added sweet flavor to be present. By (mostly) assiduously reading the ingredients (the only source of truth, which is why it is often in the smallest print), I am often able to avoid pur…

The shocking thing is if you completely drop sugar from your diet you still notice plenty of sweet things. The only changes is the threshold before you consider something sweet. IMO, we need to have a big fat "This is Candy!" label on anything that's got more than 1 gram of sugar/hfcs/whatever per serving. Yes, that includes Apple Juice and other 'hidden' sweeteners.

Even peanuts become candy under your definition.

Re: Sugar industry withheld possible evidence of cancer link 50 years ago

#164

Post by Retric » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 1:36 AM UTC

mpd wrote: post #163

Retric wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shocking thing is if you completely drop sugar from your diet you still notice plenty of sweet things. The only changes is the threshold before you consider something sweet. IMO, we need to have a big fat "This is Candy!" label on anything that's got more than 1 gram of sugar/hfcs/whatever per serving. Yes, that includes Apple Juice and other 'hidden' sweeteners.

Even peanuts become candy under your definition.

Peanuts are candy. Just look at a snickers/payday/Mr. Goodbar or 50+ others that add peanuts with say caramel/chocolate/etc. They can be fine as part of a larger dish, but really don't make a heathy snack on their own.

Re: Sugar industry withheld possible evidence of cancer link 50 years ago

#165

Post by gtrubetskoy » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 1:43 AM UTC

LolWolf wrote: post #134

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because price per pound: Erythritol: $20 Sugar: $0.44 Source: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mhVolO... [Google cache, the original PDF is 404 Not Found] Edit: looks like one can find erythritol for as little as $15, which is still 34 times more than sugar.

I think it's not weight-by-weight equivalent. I believe that a tiny amount of Erythritol is enough to be equivalently sweet relative to a much larger amount of sugar. That being said: I'm not sure if it's enough to make it cheaper than sugar.

Good point, and there is another twist I realized: sugar is used as filler (e.g. for removed fat in low-fat stuff), so Erythritol might not work because same volume of it would make it unbearably sweet.

Personally, I'd prefer they just kept the original fat and call it a day as there seems to be absolutely nothing wrong with it health-wise.

Re: Sugar industry withheld possible evidence of cancer link 50 years ago

#166

Post by AtTheLast » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 1:45 AM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #148

ams6110 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is that in the 1970s and 80s people started freaking out about fat. Everyone from the FDA to USDA to family doctor was telling people fat was bad. So food producers started making fat-free versions of everything. Only problem is it tasted like shit. So what did they do? They added sugar. So now you have sugar added to everything from salad dressing to pasta sauce to bread and muffins. The latter probably h…

I just finished reading "Grain Brain" (as a follow up to "Wheat Belly" a couple yrs ago. GF aside, both books are - or should be - a wake up call. We're eating ourselves ill. So much so we don't even realize it.

The odds are stacked against us. Working in the nutrition and fitness space has really opened my eyes into how poor nutrition over time really starts impacting lives. Even people who don't eat 'bad', still are having lots of health issues. So much sugar and other stuff in foods that are typically billed as healthy.

I'll have to check out those books, they sound really interesting. You might want to check out the book "The Case Against Sugar", it tells the story of sugar and is really interesting.

Re: Sugar industry withheld possible evidence of cancer link 50 years ago

#167

Post by ehnto » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 1:46 AM UTC

mattm wrote: post #130

ams6110 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is that in the 1970s and 80s people started freaking out about fat. Everyone from the FDA to USDA to family doctor was telling people fat was bad. So food producers started making fat-free versions of everything. Only problem is it tasted like shit. So what did they do? They added sugar. So now you have sugar added to everything from salad dressing to pasta sauce to bread and muffins. The latter probably h…

That's really strange that it was that early. If you look at pictures or videos of normal people from that time period, the main thing I always notice is how thin everyone looked.

It's likely processed foods and junk wasn't quite as prolific yet, and it also takes time to put on weight.

I imagine people were also eating much more whole foods as well, so saturation could have been lower regardless of what was in the junk food on the shelves at the time.

A study linked on HN recently also showed that sugars relationship to obesity snd diabetes may be that it changes your metabolism over time, and that change to your metabolism is what has you put on fat.

Re: Sugar industry withheld possible evidence of cancer link 50 years ago

#168

Post by epmaybe » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 1:53 AM UTC

abawany wrote: post #29

qwerty456127 wrote: post #25

The whole phenomenon of sugar and fructose being added to virtually everything is beyond comprehension. There are so many people, fat and slim, saying they don't want to be fat, yet eating foods with added sugar every day. Why not just replace all the added sugar with erythritol, for example? The whole situation with sugar reminds me of the situation with opium in early 19th century China

Erythritol can cause digestive discomfort for some [1], which is why I suspect it isn't prevalent. It was an eye opener to me how many packaged goods have sugar (HFCS) added, when intuitively it seems there was no good reason for any added sweet flavor to be present. By (mostly) assiduously reading the ingredients (the only source of truth, which is why it is often in the smallest print), I am often able to avoid pur…

I'd imagine it's because erythritol isn't absorbed, so it just sits there in your gut drawing water out osmotically. That will make you feel really uncomfortable really quickly.

Re: Sugar industry withheld possible evidence of cancer link 50 years ago

#169

Post by quickthrower2 » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 1:56 AM UTC

noncoml wrote: post #46

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #20

30–40 years later we might be saying the same thing about social media.

I wonder if people 80-100 years ago were as hysteric about radio and TV as we are today about social media.

Social media amplifies the hysteria. E.g. us lot on HN which itself is social media of a sort.

Re: Sugar industry withheld possible evidence of cancer link 50 years ago

#170

Post by quickthrower2 » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 2:02 AM UTC

pygy_ wrote: post #45

losteric wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 12 oz can of Coca Cola has twice the sugar content of an apple, without the beneficial fiber or vitamins. How many Americans are obese because they eat too many fruits and vegetables? An overwhelming majority are obese due to fast foods, soda, snacks, and sweets... costing taxpayers millions of dollars while companies profit from the negative externality.

How is the food industry supposed to grow if we stop becoming more and more obese?

If we eat better food that is more sustainable the food industry will do well. You replace the giant producers with lots of small farms. People pay more for food per calorie, but balanced out by fewer calories.

The food mafia won't like this though so they'll lobby for laws to avoid it.