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Jewelbots – A Friendship Bracelet You Can Code

jewelbots.com

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Re: Jewelbots – A Friendship Bracelet You Can Code

#161
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks so much for your feedback! Sounds like we have some things to add to the FAQ! Jewelbots can be programmed just like an Arduino using C++. Real code! Because we believe that kids are super smart (Also, I starting writing C++ at 11).

And I started at 12, so I feel you are a kindred spirit and want you to win so much. But is C++ really the first/best/only programming experience? Why would what be the right choice? UX absolutely just as important for developers as is is for ordinary users. I imagine the user experience unfolding for my 11 year old daughter, ideally there is as little friction as possible from brcelet in hand to making code run. We…

The language choice I imagine was driven by their choice of Arduino.

Arduino got where they are in part by having a rather nice IDE for a microcontroller, a nice simplified version of C++ (the Arduino language, which I assume can be used here) that eliminates a lot of the complexity and made it very simple to get started, and a nice easy pattern to upload / compile / test.

Personally, I'm not aware of a better choice out there in the microcontroller world. And it looks like the setup makes it easy (2 lines of code) to turn on / off LEDs or buzzers.

What's nice about using Arduino as well, is that the ecosystem of Arduino is very large. So it's not that much of a step up from here to other hardware projects. It's also not a huge leap from Arduino C to the many other C and C-like languages out there as well.

Re: Jewelbots – A Friendship Bracelet You Can Code

#162
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing your reasoning. I can't say I'm on the same page when it comes to femininity, though there's no reason to get into that here. I do see where you're coming from and appreciate the time and effort you're putting towards making it a reality. It is a pretty cool product to boot. If you ever do a programmable digital pet, I'll be all over that.

Thank you! I respect your opinion as well, it's great to hear it. We all have our own version of feminism, and everyone is working towards similar goals. Man, making the next Tamagotchi would be amazing, I wonder if anyone has started?

You might like to check out my other reply re:virtual pets... :)

Also, if you haven't already, you might be interested in researching Dr. Janese Swanson the founder of the "GirlTech" toy company (from mid-90s to early 2000s, I think) and maybe even trying to get in contact with her as she might have some valuable insight/opinions/contacts from her own experience for you.

I always appreciated the perspective that Pam Fox shared in her "I’m A Barbie Girl In A CS World" presentation:

* https://www.slideshare.net/wuzziwug/im-a-barbie-girl-in-a-cs... * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIhPYefRndc

How's your experience of the Nordic nRF51822 been? My impression has been that they have some great technology but their tooling/SDK support doesn't seem to put much weight on easing transition from one SDK/IC version to another.

Re: Jewelbots – A Friendship Bracelet You Can Code

#163
post #25

This would be a lot better if it was priced closer to cost. $70 is excessive for an a few RGB LEDs, microcontroller and a buzz motor. These things can't cost more than $10 to manufacture even at low scale. You have to buy at least 2 for it to be interesting they should sell them for $20-$40 each. Maybe the pricing will come down as they get orders. Very cool concept though. I hope they have some patents on it or they…

You may not be aware but comments like this (e.g. "too expensive", "a few LEDs & a microcontroller") are pretty much a trope for hardware entrepreneurs these days.

I think it's important for this to be pointed out because I feel such comments are (1) ill-informed; (2) disrespectful; and, (3) encourage poor thinking around pricing strategies.

(1) Depending on the model, on its own the Nordic MCU is, say, ~$US2.60 @ Qty 1,000. Add a vibration motor for ~$US2 @ Qty 1,000 (Yeah, mechanical parts can be expensive relative to electronic parts). Add, say, 3 WS2812B RGB LEDs for $1.00. A total of $5.60--no battery, no PCB, no support components, no Bluetooth antenna, no charging circuitry, no enclosure, no packaging. And these things are going on a kid's arm--you don't want to be skimping on quality.

And, that's just the Bill of Material.

No assembly costs, no production test jigs, no wastage, no certification/safety costs, no shipping costs, no warehousing costs. (To say nothing of software development costs, marketing, supply chain management etc etc.)

If we're going from a cost-based pricing model then back-of-envelope calculations generally suggest 2 x BOM for wholesale price and 2 x wholesale price for retail price (i.e. 4 x BOM). And, even if we don't plan for retail sales now, if we don't factor it in, we can't just double our price later.

So, even at the extremely unlikely BOM cost of $10, the minimum a startup should be considering selling at would be $40. Oh, actual BOM cost is closer to $15? That's an immediate jump to $60 RRP.

And that's only scratching the surface of the costs involved, I recommend the following if you want more details:

* https://blog.bolt.io/will-your-hardware-startup-make-money-6... * https://learn.adafruit.com/how-to-build-a-hardware-startup?v... * https://blog.bolt.io/hardware-by-the-numbers-part-2-financin... * http://www.labradoc.com/i/follower/p/notes-creating-hardware...

(Also, by way of comparison, the original Pebble launched for between $99-$150 how much difference in complexity/cost do you imagine between the two? I would say primarily the screen--and the Pebble was their second watch product. Another useful comparison: the standard Arduino Uno.)

(2) This product isn't just "a few RGB LEDs, microcontroller and a buzz motor"--not only is that not the entire BOM, what the device itself is (ignoring software and educational support material) is a robust, durable, small wearable device targeting children with an appealing enclosure, Bluetooth connectivity and the ability to upload programs. And dismissing the engineering effort required to produce any product, let alone an electronic wearable for children is, I believe, disrespectful of those developing it.

(3) For a new product, in most cases, trying to minimize retail price to make it appealing is a poor strategy for stimulating demand--it creates unrealistic expectations, sends poor quality/value signals, assumes all costs are known quantities and potentially threatens the very existence of the company.

For a not insignificant portion of the early target market with disposable income to spend on a new "educational toy" the difference between $40 and $70 is barely noticeable--so why would a startup make their life significantly more difficult by cutting their own throats on price. A company that doesn't sell their product at a sustainable price isn't doing their customers any favors.

If they start out with a bare minimum price a company also can't discount--an act which can stimulate demand at the correct stage of the product life/sales cycle.

Now, if the objection is that a product is unaffordable, that's an entirely different topic. And, yes, any low volume, educational toy product will be unaffordable to a large segment of the population but that's not a reason for a company to price their product non-sustainably.

Instead, a company that cares about such things can work to reduce/optimize production costs on subsequent models, offer discounts in special cases or create programmes to enable people unable to afford their products to purchase or be gifted them.

And, in this particular case, it's not like we're talking pouches of citrus pulp here...

Anyway, have a free rant--it's excellent value for money.

Making anything is hard enough and pricing an educational toy is a fraught enough exercise for people who actually care without having to also deal with uninformed, unrealistic & unreasonable criticism of it.

Also, patents cost time & money to obtain and to defend--they're not a panacea.

Thanks for reading. Have a nice day. Maybe make an LED blink, I recommend it. :)

Re: Jewelbots – A Friendship Bracelet You Can Code

#164
post #121
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It didn't keep her from STEM, she's an MD. That's not out of the norm; roughly half of medical students are women: https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/ The "shortage of women in STEM" mostly refers to engineering and computer science.

I'd call medical a science, but that's just me.

That's what I'm saying. It's only some of the sciences that have a shortage of women, and medical isn't really one of them. In fact one branch (nursing) has a huge oversupply of women.

Re: Jewelbots – A Friendship Bracelet You Can Code

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would seem rude for a toy maker to be asking children for their gender as assigned at birth (which is what I assume you mean) so they probably don't know.

I guess I am questioning what the point of asking for gender is, to begin with. Not sure I get the whole identify as a boy in this context.

Well apparently the whole product is aimed at a specific gender (girls) so asking what gender users identify as doesn't seem entirely out of scope?

Re: Jewelbots – A Friendship Bracelet You Can Code

#166
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My knee jerk reaction was pretty negative, but on only a few seconds’ reflection I think this is great. Absolutely no reason why kids can’t start with C++; it doesn’t have to be template meta programming insanity from the get-go. Motivated kids have infinite capacity for learning and a lot of time for exploration. Kudos for not patronizing them with some awful imitation of flow programming or some neutered scripting…

Yeah, right? I don't think the drag -> drop coding does a lot of help when it comes to learning. Talking to my male peers, I learned that most of them started coding when they were Tweens, largely because they wanted to make games or found an open source project they loved. Jewelbots are designed to be the same for girls. So far so good!

Yup. There's a lot of stuff that tries to teach that 'programmer mindset'; flow programming is one end of it. My eldest daughter is 5 and is at the other end: the 'Robot Turtles' board game. She likes it. I really don't know that it will make the slightest difference in her future programming ability, which will range anywhere from epsilon to a lot (and will have nothing to do with me beyond me providing food, a roof, and moral support.)

Were she older, I would absolutely be making sure these got on her radar so I could gauge her interest. Nothing so crass as _showing her_ of course.

I love the risk you're taking here: not only a hardware startup, but also one where success is predicated on passing the cool filter of tween girls. There is something delightfully subversive in marketing C++ programmable jewelry to young girls; it's like a 'fuck you' to Lego Friends. I really want this to succeed. Good luck.

Re: Jewelbots – A Friendship Bracelet You Can Code

#168
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not claiming that my argument is correct and hence I don't need citations. I'm merely claiming that it's intuitively plausible enough that it doesn't make sense to dismiss out of hand as obviously wrong.

I'm responding that lots of things are intuitively plausible, because that's an incredibly low bar. When you're trying to make decisions about how to educate people for example, leaning on presuppositions that are just "intuitively plausible" is lazy thinking and I would argue that for any serious matter you should dismiss out of hand such lazy thinking.

Well, I agree :). I don't want it to appear that I'm claiming there are differences in brain structure on average between men and women -- I'm just curious what science has been done.

Re: Jewelbots – A Friendship Bracelet You Can Code

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I started at 12, so I feel you are a kindred spirit and want you to win so much. But is C++ really the first/best/only programming experience? Why would what be the right choice? UX absolutely just as important for developers as is is for ordinary users. I imagine the user experience unfolding for my 11 year old daughter, ideally there is as little friction as possible from brcelet in hand to making code run. We…

The language choice I imagine was driven by their choice of Arduino. Arduino got where they are in part by having a rather nice IDE for a microcontroller, a nice simplified version of C++ (the Arduino language, which I assume can be used here) that eliminates a lot of the complexity and made it very simple to get started, and a nice easy pattern to upload / compile / test. Personally, I'm not aware of a better choice…

That’s great to know thank you. Having a great tooling/environment/ecosystem is probably more important than the language choice itself.

Re: Jewelbots – A Friendship Bracelet You Can Code

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would seem rude for a toy maker to be asking children for their gender as assigned at birth (which is what I assume you mean) so they probably don't know.

I guess I am questioning what the point of asking for gender is, to begin with. Not sure I get the whole identify as a boy in this context.

Did they say they asked? I thought that comment just indicated that they had noticed. And since you are the person who brought up the concept of identifying as a boy in this context, I don't think anyone else can tell you why it might have seemed relevant.
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