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VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

reuters.com

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Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#161

Post by PhasmaFelis »

quakeguy wrote: post #111
ythn wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it is very unlikely that the german court system will prosecute them. Germany is cool that its citizens conducted international fraud at a scale the world has never seen?

And the US is cool with "rolling coal" because....

...It's not? It's illegal here. It's not often punished just because (a) it's quite rare and (b) most police have better things to do than pulling some guy over and emissions-testing his car over something that looks like a simple engine problem. It's in the news because it's political, but it's not actually common at all.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#162

Post by simonh »

joering2 wrote: post #135
rurban wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but will the executives involved be held to the same legal standard Yes, they will, but Germany will not extradite them. They already made that clear. And it is very unlikely that the german court system will prosecute them. Haven't heard anything yet, because this might inflict the politicians who backed this Diesel emission testing system for decades. They didn't even go to the technical root yet. Only one made t…

I must say I'm troubled about recent political situation in Germany.. for so many years they been a real good example in Europe how to lead, despite the fact they start the WW2. But now there is no free speech (you cannot shout Heil Hitler - that might be long prison sentence) and just recently there been article here how Germany court system doesn't believe in freedom of speech. Now this. If there truly won't be any…

Making a few specific Nazi phrases illegal doesn't meant there is 'no free speech'.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#163

Post by smnscu »

blubb-fish wrote: post #147
rurban wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but will the executives involved be held to the same legal standard Yes, they will, but Germany will not extradite them. They already made that clear. And it is very unlikely that the german court system will prosecute them. Haven't heard anything yet, because this might inflict the politicians who backed this Diesel emission testing system for decades. They didn't even go to the technical root yet. Only one made t…

Aww - come on Winterkorn is already punished enough - his company pension is dire 3100 Euro. [1] [1]: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/ex-vw-chef...

Per day. For reference, that is €1,131,500 or $1,350,000 per year.

> You’re in the top 0.007% richest people in the world by income.

> That makes you the 428,441st richest person on earth by income.

I'm really disappointed with Germany on this one, but it makes sense since VAG were buddy buddies with Merkel & co. since time immemorial (makes sense since it's a powerful force for the economy, still despicable).

If you kill a couple of people you go to jail or might even get executed. If you kill 1200+ you get early retired on a comfy stipend.

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa5987

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#164

Post by greglindahl »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #143
ams6110 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has always been my problem with the whole case. Yes they violated the law and yes they probably should be some punishment but the real impact was almost nothing, the vehicles would have met the restrictions of only a few years prior, and the limits are almost entirely arbitrary and politically motivated.

I agree. If we weren't on a forum filled with mostly people from CA who take for granted things like byzantine HOA rules and intrusive bylaws we'd be questioning why emissions requirements made "screw it, we're cheating on this one" a defensible decision for anyone at VW. You shouldn't have to break the law to be competitive.

"Screw it, we know how to meet the law, but we want to save money" is what VW did. Not only did it result in people dying from air pollution, it also left their competition wondering how VW did it so inexpensively.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#165

Post by rurban »

leipert wrote: post #140
okreallywtf wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why will they not, do they fear they will not get a fair trial in the US or will be punished worse than their crimes dictate?

Maybe because the Volkswagen AG employs 0.6 million people worldwide, 220 thousand of them in Germany?

If the Volkswagen AG would be the only culprit. So far it looks like Audi persuaded Bosch to add the cheat detection code into it's ECU used in almost every Diesel car, and consequently almost every car was using it. The scandal is much bigger than VW.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#166

Post by interfixus »

okreallywtf wrote: post #97
rurban wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but will the executives involved be held to the same legal standard Yes, they will, but Germany will not extradite them. They already made that clear. And it is very unlikely that the german court system will prosecute them. Haven't heard anything yet, because this might inflict the politicians who backed this Diesel emission testing system for decades. They didn't even go to the technical root yet. Only one made t…

Why will they not, do they fear they will not get a fair trial in the US or will be punished worse than their crimes dictate?

Honestly, US penal standards are so out of whack with those of the rest of at least the "western" world, that no country ought ever consider extradition as an option.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#167

Post by simonbarker87 »

azinman2 wrote: post #157

So purposefully modifying cars to illegally pollute to huge levels, causing deaths and disease from said pollution gets a few years in prison? The range of time people are charged with is so arbitrary and usually inconsequential with mass scale “white collar” crimes, and totally excessive for the poor and/or minorities. It’s insane.

> causing deaths and disease from said pollution

Has that been proven? Serious question, I've not kept up with the ins and outs of the case.

UPDATE: I should clarify, I mean specifically the increased pollution these VWs created not just pollution in general.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#168

Post by LoSboccacc »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #82
LoSboccacc wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seems little for a lifetime of unemployment

Are you kidding? $3.6 million is enough to retire and live comfortably for the rest of your life.

You think money is all that is for a comfortable life?

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#169

Post by alkonaut »

dom0 wrote: post #133
alkonaut wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also very curious how they managed to get my '09 "fixed" somehow via a simple software patch. I would have understood it if it had lost 20% performance or got 20% higher fuel consumption - but that didn't happen. So: if it was that easy to fix legally why did they cheat in the first place?? Of course it can't be that easy. So of course my car is still polluting over the limit. And I think this is a story that i…

> That also answers why the German government is giving them some leeway here: it's not exactly in their interest to kill Volkswagen. While the federal government does not have a direct stake (apart from all the tax euros), the fine state of Lower Saxony holds a 20 % share (which actually causes the MP and his economics minister to always be on the board of directors).

The country has a huge stake regardless since they likely pay unemployment benefits if they were to go under etc.

Re: VW engineering executive sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#170

Post by NegativeLatency »

dubyah wrote: post #136
quakeguy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the land of "rolling coal" (0.0), and no TÜV+AU (0),(1), any sudden punishment of violators from outside reeks of market protection. (0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_Überwachungsverein (1) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abgasuntersuchung (non english WP link, basically it means "emission checking") Edit: (0.0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

"Rolling coal" remains an illegal modification, practiced by scofflaws. TÜVs are not immune to conflicts of interests.[0] And while generally not a separate sticker from annual car registrations, annual or biennial emissions testings are carried out by most states.[1] >any sudden punishment of violators from outside reeks of market protection. Perhaps it's because the EU lacks the authority of the member states to re…

Most states emissions testing requirements are not stringent. Having lived in Washington, Oregon, and California I can say that WA's and OR's tests don't do much.
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