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Why I left Japan after 10 years

blog.uchujin.co.uk

161–170 of 287 posts

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#161
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's because english is considered universal language and they don't want to presume that you know japanese well enough for a conversation? Yes, which is a source of white people being "forever foreigners" in Japan, which is exactly my point.

I don't understand, how does that make it "forever foreigners"? Have you tried telling them you understand japanese and continue conversation? How would the other person know if you arrived yesterday or living there for 20yrs? This is a pretty bad example imo.

I understand it as opposed to situation when you move from Germany to Italia. If you manage to learn the accent and language, you can pass as Italian and be treated exactly as one in every detail. In Japan, if you are white, it is not possible and you will never achieve that level of assimilation nor will your children.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#162

It's kind of ironic how much he generalises Japanese people. See bad thing - link to Japanese people as a whole or in general, rather than the individual. It's an easy mistake to make. Especially if you do ever hear it in the inverse direction. "Foreigners do X or Y", etc. If he aimed to replace generic instances of 'Japanese people' or 'in Japan' with specific reference to the instance or person, I think he'd have h…

> the fact that they were Japanese in this instance is more related to the fact that they were born and brought up in Japan

Those two are the same, if you are born and brought up in Japan then you are Japanese. Similarly if you are born and brought up in America then you are an American even if you happen to look like most people do in Japan. Do you disagree with this? Can immigrants from Japan never become true Americans? Or have you accepted Japanese racism to such a degree that you think it is impossible for a white person to become Japanese?

Also, the fact that you see someone who lived in Japan for 10 years as anything other than Japanese is a sign that this is a larger problem and not just something in his mind. Would you call someone who have been integrated in American culture for 10 years anything other than American?

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#163

The article is full of whining about imaginary BS like gender-bias and the writer seems to be doing everything is his/her power to look for problems that really don't exist like complaining about the word "foreigner" and trying to find racism or discrimination in everything. Japan may have it's problems but this is ridiculous.

gender bias in japan is not imaginary

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#164
Some of the points he makes are spot on. I’ve worked with over 1000 Japanese ppl in almost 2 years. They are… complex in a way I can not describe… Some of the biggest cultural differences: 1. Don’t presume they’re happy when they’re smiling. 2. Their thank you doesn’t mean they are actually thankful, nor satisfied. 3. If you see a smiling Japanese grandma, run for your bloody life, those are the worst. 4. If you’re not smiling, you’re rude. 5. If someone tells you that you’re pretty, you should smile, and say thank you. No, don’t respond with: “Umm, can you please stop saying that? What does my look have to do with the way I do my job?” - I've been reported as rude to the QA team because of that.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#165
post #40

I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it. So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving similar vitriol aside from the OP. A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it. I'm…

It's small cultural differences. In the UK, the most dreaded crime you can do is cutting in the queue — while in other countries, while still frowned upon, this is not a big deal. Here in Switzerland, if you dare to get your trash out to someone else's container and get caught in the act, you are royally screwed — while people in other countries can't get it, trash is still getting out by waste management services, w…

Can you expand the 'not the greatest country anecdote' ? I am moving to SF soon (from France) and while the US have great opportunities for techies, I find it the 'best country in the world' mantra laughable.

(it applies to pretty much any country though .. which norm (in the mathematical sense) are you using exactly ? I don't think there is one and only one.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#166
post #159
post #40

I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it. So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving similar vitriol aside from the OP. A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it. I'm…

> how many asians in America get asked,"so, where are you from?" whenever they meet someone? Caucasians in America get asked this all the time too.

The difference is that when Caucasians answer "California", the follow-up question is rarely "which European country are your ancestors from?"

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#167
post #159
post #40

I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it. So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving similar vitriol aside from the OP. A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it. I'm…

> how many asians in America get asked,"so, where are you from?" whenever they meet someone? Caucasians in America get asked this all the time too.

Maybe, but if you answer 'America', the next question isn't 'but where are you /really/ from?' as though the birthplace of your parents or their parents is a defining factor. And I say this a white British guy, but I've regularly witnessed the slightly different way that it is intonated at those that aren't white.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#168
post #3

Come to Russia instead, it's the best to be for a foreigner

Lol. Literally every single one of his complaints is even worse in Russia. Hating foreigners? They teach us that from kindergarten. Police doesn't like you? You're screwed completely. And god help you if your skin is even slightly darker than white (or if you happen to be gay).

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#169
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that he is serious. You knew that already. Perhaps you disagree? Perhaps you can present your own findings and contribute to the discussion? Based on my own fairly limited experience in Japan, English as learned in school doesn't seem to translate (a ha ha) into effective English conversation. It seems that an academic rigor is taught (no bad thing, of course) but practical conversation skills are neglected.

I find the attitude of people from English-speaking countries that the rest of the world should speak fluent English quite puzzling. It is understandable if you are a professional dealing with foreign companies, or if you are involved in the tourism business; that leaves out the vast majority of the population, which is not willing to invest hundreds of hours learning a skill that does not provide any significant ben…

> I find the attitude of people from English-speaking countries that the rest of the world should speak fluent English quite puzzling.

I've noticed the opposite attitude. At least among western countries, the opposition to forcing kids to learn English seems to be far more prevalent among Americans and Brits than among non-anglophones.

In my country, English is mandatory in both primary and secondary education and this is not controversial in any way. It is considered common sense. You mention a lack of significant benefits to people's daily lives - of all the things kids learn in school, what is more useful than learning English? Very basic math certainly as it is necessary to function as an adult, but not much else. I don't remember what the anatomy of an arthropod is like nor do I need this information and I learned a ton of stuff like that in school, while being able to speak (and even more so read) English has opened many doors for me and been useful in so many ways. Academically, professionally and privately.

For anglophones, they and their kids are going to speak English and be fine in the modern world either way. So it is easier for them to virtue signal by dismissing the importance of learning English and supporting some misguided idea of "language equality". A lot of anglophones also don't notice the incredible amount of information in English and the incredible amount of people who speak English to some degree because they take it for granted, causing them to underestimate the usefulness of the language.

Japan may be an exception because it is culturally isolated compared to, for example, the EU. But still, I can't help but think investing more effort in teaching kids English would likely be more useful than at least some things they learn in school, even in Japan.

Also, fluent vs nearly useless is a false dichotomy.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#170
post #30

>The level of English in Japan is shockingly low, despite everyone studying it for 6 years at school. I honestly think it is kept deliberately low >I honestly think it is kept deliberately low Is this guy serious?

It seems that he is serious. You knew that already. Perhaps you disagree? Perhaps you can present your own findings and contribute to the discussion? Based on my own fairly limited experience in Japan, English as learned in school doesn't seem to translate (a ha ha) into effective English conversation. It seems that an academic rigor is taught (no bad thing, of course) but practical conversation skills are neglected.

I "learned" French in school for 5 years. I couldn't put together a sentence if you paid me.

It's a combination of the program being incompetent and students feeling no tangible benefit from studying.

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