Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#161

Post by MrBuddyCasino » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 9:20 PM UTC

Mikushi wrote: post #147

starchild3001 wrote: post #133

This article ticks me off. Apple announced some really good features on Monday (CoreML and a bunch of ML driven features). Having this kind of article after WWDC is unfair. As a consumer, I applaud Apple's approach. The so-called AI as pursued by Google & other tech companies isn't AI at all. True AI won't need as much data. You do need data for Machine Learning (i.e. pattern matching). That's what other tech firms a…

> The so-called AI as pursued by Google & other tech companies isn't AI at all. True AI won't need as much data. Deepmind / AlphaGo, Watson, and other like them are about the best thing we have nowadays when it comes to AI. Let's not even talk about True AI, which if you take any of the definitions can only become reality with so much data we're only brushing on it actually. Saying True AI won't need as much data is…

I spent the last two days in IBMs Watson Innovation Centre, working with the Watson Conversation APIs. To say I was not impressed is putting it mildly. Can you name any examples where Watson is good?

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#162

Post by kartD » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 9:21 PM UTC

abritinthebay wrote: post #152

kartD wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would be an advantage of Apple's system (assuming they improve speech recognition) and how would that contrast with Google's approach?

The power to create connections between things of the underlying system is greater. Basically if Apple actually manages to get the voice recognition part down (so it parses intent/structure rather than just pure words) it'll be very powerful. Right now Apple has a frontend that is more suitable for a command-based system and Google has a frontend that is better for am intent based system. It's easier to improve the f…

Oh I see, thanks!

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#163

Post by AndrewKemendo » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 9:24 PM UTC

old-gregg wrote: post #66

pwython wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

You are making two assumptions that aren't necessarily true. First, you're assuming that you have control over what kind of information is being collected and shared, and you're assuming it's always good for you. Here's a fairly innocent scenario: if Amazon Echo can learn everything about you, they may discover that you're crazy about Paris and you have good income. Then they can sell this info to every travel websit…

You say "overpay" but if the user pays for it then that would have been an efficient price - making the entire transaction beneficial.

Economically it would be the market clearing price so would be beneficial to the market generally. Sounds like a great thing.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#164

Post by forsberg » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 9:30 PM UTC

b1daly wrote: post #137

old-gregg wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making two assumptions that aren't necessarily true. First, you're assuming that you have control over what kind of information is being collected and shared, and you're assuming it's always good for you. Here's a fairly innocent scenario: if Amazon Echo can learn everything about you, they may discover that you're crazy about Paris and you have good income. Then they can sell this info to every travel websit…

You make a good point about the pricing asymmetry. But the point remains that most people are voluntarily, enthusiastically, giving up personal data in exchange for features that they find valuable. It's hard to see that as a privacy issue. Being part of the world involves being known. In the proverbial "olde days," when people lived in much smaller communities, everyone knew everyone's business. Government spying on…

Well, according to a study conducted a few years ago, most people actually doesn't give up their information enthusiastically.

https://techcrunch.com/2015/06/06/the-online-privacy-lie-is-...

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#165

Post by CaptSpify » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 9:30 PM UTC

abritinthebay wrote: post #154

CaptSpify wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you have control over the former? Data is being gleamed about you even if you aren't using their products, and it's being used by companies you haven't authorized all the time.

I didn't say complete control. That's... well... not actually possible (ever, since time began really, if someone can see you they can track data about you). But you can have reasonable control of it and you can't with the latter.

I would extremely argue the term reasonable.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#166

Post by mythz » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 9:36 PM UTC

macinjosh wrote: post #30

theCricketer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on Android's weaknesses when it comes to privacy and contrast this with Apple's approach? Asking genuinely to update my understanding.

The glib response is to point out the difference between Apple's and Google's business models. Apple makes money by selling devices, Google sells ads (i.e. sells their customers' data to advertisers).

> Google sells ads (i.e. sells their customers' data to advertisers).

They sell targeted ads, they do not sell customers' data to advertisers. i.e. Advertisers get to advertise on Google's platforms, but they do not get access to Customer data.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#167

Post by kharms » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 9:37 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #163

old-gregg wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making two assumptions that aren't necessarily true. First, you're assuming that you have control over what kind of information is being collected and shared, and you're assuming it's always good for you. Here's a fairly innocent scenario: if Amazon Echo can learn everything about you, they may discover that you're crazy about Paris and you have good income. Then they can sell this info to every travel websit…

You say "overpay" but if the user pays for it then that would have been an efficient price - making the entire transaction beneficial. Economically it would be the market clearing price so would be beneficial to the market generally. Sounds like a great thing.

Suppose a company invented an aids vaccine, and then charged gay folks and injection drug users 20x, because of hey - those at higher risk are willing to pay more for protection would that be a great thing?

Or let's go back to the Paris example. If everyone is paying the most they can afford, that leaves less money on the table for restaurants, cheese and wine when actually in Paris. It's 'great' if you only look at the market dynamics of flights and ignore the economic/social benefits of cheap travel.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#168

Post by AndrewKemendo » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 9:40 PM UTC

kharms wrote: post #167

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say "overpay" but if the user pays for it then that would have been an efficient price - making the entire transaction beneficial. Economically it would be the market clearing price so would be beneficial to the market generally. Sounds like a great thing.

Suppose a company invented an aids vaccine, and then charged gay folks and injection drug users 20x, because of hey - those at higher risk are willing to pay more for protection would that be a great thing? Or let's go back to the Paris example. If everyone is paying the most they can afford, that leaves less money on the table for restaurants, cheese and wine when actually in Paris. It's 'great' if you only look at…

Depends on whether you believe healthcare should be treated the same as other products in the marketplace, or if you think they are a public good.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#169

Post by beachbum8029 » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 9:41 PM UTC

emiliobumachar wrote: post #23

blazespin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, Siri is horribly behind. I've gone to the point of installing Google on my iPhone and using it even though it's a struggle to activate it compared to Siri. My big problem with Siri is that I have to time when I start talking. Also, her voice recognition is awful in noisy settings. I have an iPhone 7

Tangent: wouldn't it be nice if you could say "Siri, ask Google to..." I wonder if implementing the feature of calling 3rd party assistants from the flagship assistant would pay off strategically. On one hand, you appeal to people who like other assistants better, or like different assistants for different things. On the other hand, you give up on forcing people to get used to your assistant. Also, could an isolation…

Lol, you can't even ask Siri to play a song on Spotify so you can forget about that. Anyway at that point why do you want to play telephone with chatbots? Just get an android phone.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#170

Post by beachbum8029 » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 9:42 PM UTC

eridius wrote: post #107

rosstex wrote: post #26

Me: Hey Siri, what cheese goes well with fruit? Siri: Here's what I found on the web for "What cheese goes well with fruit..." Me: Hey Google, what cheese goes well with fruit? Google: "Edam"

I assume you're trying to say that Google's answer is better, right? Google's certainly being more authoritative, but the answer to your question is actually fairly subjective, there's more answers than just "Edam", so IMO surfacing search results is better than just having Google pick one answer. Google's also been known to produce completely incorrect "authoritative" answers.

He didn't ask, "What cheese goes best with fruit?" he said "goes well with fruit." So Google's answer is technically more correct. The best kind of correct.