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Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

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Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#161

Post by soVeryTired »

hedora wrote: post #101
_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, on a plane the crew is king and you have to follow their orders. If they decide that you have to leave the plane, you must leave the plane. Now, their reasons might be questionable. You have every right to fight the airline once you are off the plane. But there is no room for this while on board. Basically, as soon as he started to refuse to follow the crew's orders, it was a lost case for him.

s/plane/bus/g s/leave/sit in the back of/g

Please don't compare this to the civil rights movement. Police brutality is not a good thing, but the injustices that started that movement were orders of magnitude greater.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#162

Post by valuearb »

ensiferum wrote: post #114

Seriously, next time this happens how about raising the compensation for someone willing to take the later flight. The Aircrew could announce on the PA that "we're very sorry that the fligth will be be delayed but we're overbooked and still looking for X ppl willing to take the next flight. We're offering a X $ compensation for your trouble." Then you just increase X until you will find people willing to take the dea…

They went up to $800 and got no takers. $800 is what United has to pay for involuntarily bumping someone. So clearly United company policy is to not pay anything above that (other airlines will). This is what bit them in the ass here.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#163

Post by valuearb »

wnevets wrote: post #93

I just wish people would stop repeating that this was an overbooking issue, it wasn't. Customers were being forced off the plane to allow employees on after the fact. That has nothing to do with overbooking.

Doesn't matter. Airline can remove anyone they want from a flight for any reason. They had to get another air crew to louisville or another flight would be stuck on the tarmac full of passengers.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#164

Post by wnevets »

valuearb wrote: post #163
wnevets wrote: post #93

I just wish people would stop repeating that this was an overbooking issue, it wasn't. Customers were being forced off the plane to allow employees on after the fact. That has nothing to do with overbooking.

Doesn't matter. Airline can remove anyone they want from a flight for any reason. They had to get another air crew to louisville or another flight would be stuck on the tarmac full of passengers.

It absolutely matters. One is an incorrect statement and the other isn't.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#165

Post by phonon »

valuearb wrote: post #157
BlackFly wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The flight was not overbooked, they wanted to eject holders of confirmed reserved seats in favor of their own employees in contravention of 14 CFR 250.2a. 2. Overbooking rules can only be used to deny boarding. The passenger had already boarded. 3. United's own Contract of Carriage enumerates for "Refusal of Transport" in rule 21. None of the rules apply. What United did was illegal, plain and simple. They may hav…

I'm sure some lawyer will try to go down this path for the alleged physician. But the reality is the flight crew has the right to kick anyone off the plane, and they need to have that right.

Not true. UA has a Contract of Carriage that specifically enumerates the possible reasons they can use to deny boarding or remove someone from a flight. There is no "catch-all" in it.

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriag...

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#166

Post by govg »

cm2187 wrote: post #85
valuearb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work because it's crazy expensive to build tracks, and not cost effective unless you have massive density. Airlines are better, not just because planes are faster, but because of flexibility. You can find a space somewhere and build a new airport, or add a new runway to an existing airport and use less than one thousandth the land the rail line will require. The planes you fly to one destination can sudden…

It's not just about the comfort of seating in a train. It's about not having to queue for 1h at security, being abused by TLA officers, queue again, getting checked, queue again, getting checked, etc. Flying today feels like going to jail.

If you have as much commercial pressure in trains as you do in flights, then I'm sure you will be asked to do the same sort of checks, and standing in queues. This happens because flights are an easy target (due to high costs, visibility and more favored view in the public eye). If we had someone attacking train lines because they carried a lot of people, you would have correspondingly sever safety regulations too.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#167

Post by [deleted] »

valuearb wrote: post #86
cm2187 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse than that. They were disembarking passengers to make room for their own staff who were not even planned on this trip.

You understand their staff needed to be on this flight so that another plane full of passengers in Louisville wouldn't be delayed by not having a flight crew?

[deleted]

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#168

Post by valuearb »

Karunamon wrote: post #42
valuearb wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airlines overbook because people don't show up for flights. Overbooking means airlines can offer passengers refundable tickets. Occasionally they get it wrong and have too many people show up. So they offer compensation to get people to voluntarily give up seats. If they can't get people to voluntarily give up seats they have the right to pick who to deny service to (but by law have to pay specific compensation to).…

Another way of looking at this would be to point out that internet service and air travel are the only two industries where it is legally allowed to sell people something you know in advance you can't provide. In a sane world, overbooking would be at best illegal, the airline would realize the savings from the flight they were paid for but didn't actually have to carry the 200 pounds of passenger + luggage. (That's a…

The airline has to provide you passage. They don't have to provide you passage on the flight you reserved. By doing this the system works more efficiently and your ticket cost is lower.

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#169

Post by govg »

Dan_Nguyen wrote: post #123
mavelikara wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is capped at a maximum of $1300. From [1]: If it’s more than two hours (four hours for international flights), or if the airline does not offer alternate flights, the compensation is 400 percent of your one-way fare, with a $1300 maximum. [1] http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2014-09-04/bumped-due-to-o...

Isn't that their legal obligation though? Certainly they could have offered more considering everyone was seated already, they had the crew for a future flight to transport on time, and everyone was initially unwilling. I think it's the timing that made things so difficult for them. If they asked me at the gate I'd be willing to take $400 plus flight comps. If it's when I'm already seated on the plane though (and rep…

The video that was circulating online showed all the passengers seated and buckled up, and the one guy being forcibly ousted from his seat. So yeah...

Re: Leaked email from United Airlines CEO blames passenger for violent removal

#170

Post by phonon »

valuearb wrote: post #163
wnevets wrote: post #93

I just wish people would stop repeating that this was an overbooking issue, it wasn't. Customers were being forced off the plane to allow employees on after the fact. That has nothing to do with overbooking.

Doesn't matter. Airline can remove anyone they want from a flight for any reason. They had to get another air crew to louisville or another flight would be stuck on the tarmac full of passengers.

Not true. UA has a Contract of Carriage that specifically enumerates the possible reasons they can use to deny boarding or remove someone from a flight. There is no "catch-all" in it.

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriag...

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