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New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

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Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#161
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could be said of female contraception, yet I don't see many people complaining about that. Why do you think that is?

I absolutely wouldn't encourage my teenage daughter to consider it as a right of passage for safe sex.

HPV vaccines are a "rite of passage" now -- or rather, they're just a vaccine that almost every female teenager, and many males, get.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That pill is entirely different from what the article up top is talking about.

That's why "pill" is inside quotes. And in any case, basic biology and the presented numbers still stand as the reality.

No, but he's saying that the "pill" that you're talking about, in quotes or not, is completely different from what's described in this article, so it's irrelevant.

It also has literally nothing to do with the thread in question, which is discussing whether one should advocate for these kinds of contraceptives when they may increase the rate of STDs.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Argue it all you want, just don't try to force it. If you're going to argue for sexual restraint but want to let people make their own decisions on it, you're going to have to work really hard to distance yourself from e.g. the people who fight against the HPV vaccine because they're more concerned with premarital sex than with cervical cancer. It's really rare to find anyone who merely wants to argue for it. Most ei…

Because morals are a good thing. Isn't it funny how all the real religions came to the same conclusion on all the controversial issues of our day.

Not all of them. Buddhism, for example, disagrees with several abrahamic religious conclusions on moral issues. Hinduism, I believe, has a caste system which doesn't exist as a moral controversial issue in abrahamic religions but is still a controversial issue in modern times for which Hinduism is a popular religion in the region.

Abrahmix religions and Hinduism generally disagree on several moral issues, such as how many gods may be worshiped.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#164
post #100

Should I have children, I see myself walking my teenage son to the clinic to get this done. A rite of passage of sorts. It is difficult to understate the importance of bringing only wanted children into this world, and that both parents agree on it. The cultural importance of this invention will be revealed in time, I hope.

It's probably difficult because you don't have children and therefore lack the experience necessary to develop a comprehensive understanding of the topic. That's not to say your partial understanding is not valid, it's just incomplete. Not only am I adopted (thus not "wanted"), but neither of my children were planned and my wife and I initially couldn't agree. From my real world experience, and not speculation, it on…

> It's probably difficult because you don't have children and therefore lack the experience necessary to develop a comprehensive understanding of the topic.

> That's not to say your partial understanding is not valid, it's just incomplete.

Thank God somebody who understands everything has shown up to set them straight.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#165
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How sad that arguing virtue for its own sake is now politically incorrect.

I'd like to hear your argument as to how "virtue" figures into one consenting adult having sex or not with another consenting adult. /"chewed gum" arguments?

Sex outside of marriage is wrong because it might result in STDs or children you can't care for. And technology which solves those problems is wrong because it might encourage sex outside of marriage. /s

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Argue it all you want, just don't try to force it. If you're going to argue for sexual restraint but want to let people make their own decisions on it, you're going to have to work really hard to distance yourself from e.g. the people who fight against the HPV vaccine because they're more concerned with premarital sex than with cervical cancer. It's really rare to find anyone who merely wants to argue for it. Most ei…

Because morals are a good thing. Isn't it funny how all the real religions came to the same conclusion on all the controversial issues of our day.

Pray tell - how does one determine whether a religion is "real" or not? Furthermore, are you positing that of all of these "real" religions, that they all speak to the same truth regarding humanity and it's relationship with their deity(s)?

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#167
post #152
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably difficult because you don't have children and therefore lack the experience necessary to develop a comprehensive understanding of the topic. That's not to say your partial understanding is not valid, it's just incomplete. Not only am I adopted (thus not "wanted"), but neither of my children were planned and my wife and I initially couldn't agree. From my real world experience, and not speculation, it on…

> Not only am I adopted (thus not "wanted") So are you saying that, despite the effort, time, and money it takes for adoption, your adoptive parents didn't want you? That doesn't make any sense. While it might be true that your birth parent(s) didn't want you, there might be reasons why that is so; of course, I can't speak to that as I don't know your situation. What I can say, though, is that my parents wanted me wh…

> So are you saying that, despite the effort, time, and money it takes for adoption, your adoptive parents didn't want you?

No. I'm pretty confident that the "not wanted" statement was made in reference to the biological parents.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because morals are a good thing. Isn't it funny how all the real religions came to the same conclusion on all the controversial issues of our day.

Oh yeah, it's great how every religion came up with the exact same views on how many women you should marry, how you should treat people who worship different gods, what kind of food it's OK to eat, whether religion should be subservient to the state or vice versa, and so forth. "Morals are a good thing" whose morals, exactly? Let me guess, yours happen to be the correct ones?

The telling bit is their use of "real religions." A No True Scotsman in the making.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#169
post #142
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What all have we lost due to birth control?

Before birth control, it was an accomplishment one could be proud of to have children at the right time. It required stable relationships and self-control. Your family and church would give you a lot of respect if you succeeded, and contempt if you failed. It was a test that separated the virtuous from the lazy, weak, and sinful. When such hardships are made optional by technological or social progress, most find new…

> It was a test that separated the virtuous from the lazy, weak, and sinful. When such hardships are made optional by technological or social progress, most find new challenges to conquer but many regret their loss.

And it used to be that, in order to eat food, you had to work 12 hours a day under the hot sun, which was great because only the righteous could be fed.

Now anyone, even those born to a weakling family, can get a job as a software developer and spend time chatting on Hacker News, and still feed a family. It's shameful.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#170
post #153
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before birth control, it was an accomplishment one could be proud of to have children at the right time. It required stable relationships and self-control. Your family and church would give you a lot of respect if you succeeded, and contempt if you failed. It was a test that separated the virtuous from the lazy, weak, and sinful. When such hardships are made optional by technological or social progress, most find new…

The problem with this lovely wheat-from-chaff heuristic is that "failure" results in the introduction of a new human life into a world that may not be prepared for it and will be strained ecologically for its existence. I would much rather have a world where the lazy, weak, and sinful pop pills towards an ecologically sustainable population than one where the virtuous are lauded for bringing five or six new people in…

Me too. The failure mode of pre-contraceptive society (unwanted children) was terrible. But human nature is what it is, and many people are willing to accept terrible externalities in order to have a means to display their comparative virtue. The recent attack on universal health care in the US is an example. Many voters seem to desire a world where people who have their financial shit together will live, and others will die.

For a clear-eyed view of these less inspiring aspects of human nature, read Sapiens and Homo Deus by Harari.

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