Welcome, ACLU • Hacker News Board

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#161

Post by mhink » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

laurent123456 wrote: post #97

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

This logic (people should do nothing today because they did nothing yesterday) doesn't make any sense, and I don't get why it keeps coming up every time something related to Trump's policy comes up.

Because it's a rhetorical tactic, not an argument based on logic. And it's tailored directly towards getting the Left to "sit down and shut up".

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#162

Post by jstalin » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

striking wrote: post #129

chickenfries wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Indonesia doesn't have problems with terrorism? (Edit: also, Pakistan?). The idea that this is a reasonable counterterrorism measure by any means is a farce that doesn't stand up to the lightest of scrutiny. It's a test of executive power, perhaps for something more sinister [1]. [1] https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e...

It's a list inherited from the Obama administration. The best time to argue about whether this list stands up to scrutiny or not was years ago. Edit: I'm not making comments about Trump's actions (specifically, I'm not defending what he did). As for whether this particular list stands up to scrutiny, that question should have been asked a long time ago.

And signed by Obama himself.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#163

Post by character0 » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

Hopefully, people are setting up recurring payments that continue to show support for organizations like the ACLU. Then when the next travesty inevitably occurs, they are already supporting the good fight.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#164

Post by ihsw » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

chickenfries wrote: post #59

ihsw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Peter Thiel but anyone of sound mind -- the top 5 countries by Muslim-majority population are not included. * Indonesia 204,847,000 (87.2%) * Pakistan 178,097,000 (96.4%) * India 172,245,158 (14.2%) * Bangladesh 145,312,000 (90%) * Nigeria 75,728,000 (47.9%) If Indonesia suddenly became plagued by radical Islamic terrorism then it would be on the list too. The seven countries targeted by the immigration…

You think Indonesia doesn't have problems with terrorism? (Edit: also, Pakistan?). The idea that this is a reasonable counterterrorism measure by any means is a farce that doesn't stand up to the lightest of scrutiny. It's a test of executive power, perhaps for something more sinister [1]. [1] https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e...

Pakistan and Indonesia maintain good relations with the US and they are able to provide reassurances that radical members of their Muslim populace won't try to spread Jihad across the world.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#165

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

AsyncAwait wrote: post #55

monochromatic wrote: post #33

The ACLU sometimes supports a worthy cause, but it's basically just a left-leaning political organization. I understand that's particularly trendy right now, and anyone who supports Trump is a pariah in Silicon Valley... but come on. Would YC be donating directly to the Democratic party if that got the same favorable tax treatment?

The ACLU tends to not pick political sides.

[deleted]

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#166

Post by matt_wulfeck » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

I used to be an ACLU supporter, but stopped after their main objectives switched to more of what I describe as matters of feelings, E.g., whether a man who identifies as a women can use a women's bathroom in Georgia, or whether the term man or women can ever be used at all. In my opinion most the ACLU LGBT agenda has been a useless war on words, yet it's taking on a greater and greater importance in the organization.

Meanwhile constitutionally-guaranteed personal liberties, such as protection against unreasonable search and seizure, seemed to be getting less and less important.

Instead I've switched to funding the EFF, which really does seem at the forefront of constitutional freedoms because it's operating in an area where they are seriously under attack. In the grand scheme of things the EFF seems to be doing much more important and historically relevant work.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#167

Post by kobayashi » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

Because although many terrible things occur every day, President Trump/Bannon are the most serious internal threats to the freedoms, safety, and security of Americans since WWII, and perhaps even earlier. Moreover, the threats they pose extend far beyond America's borders. The possibility of autocracy, illiberalism, and kleptocracy are real, and the many donors understand this. Liberal democracy is the foundation of human freedoms. I normally disagree with some prominent positions of the ACLU, but we're in an "all hands on deck" situation. It's different.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#168

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

[deleted]

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#169

Post by pgodzin » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

rubidium wrote: post #138

dang wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it hasn't. The rule has been the same for years: most politics are off topic. Check it out: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . The difference between "most" and "all" is significant. HN can't be immune to what's going on in the outside world and we've learned from years of experience that it doesn't make sense to try. At the same time, we're not going to let politics overwhelm the site, since that…

I wish I had the time to gather the data. Someone please do this. Make sure to normalize against total activity. I'm a hn user since at least 9.8 years ago (my first HN handle was different than current, which is 7 years old). To my impression as a relatively apolitical person, the site has become MUCH more political in the past year. I may be wrong in that though.

The issues affecting the tech community seem to have gotten a lot more political in the past year as well. Immigration issues, net neutrality, surveillance, women and diversity issues have all been particularly politicized recently.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#170

Post by ErikVandeWater » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #68

ihsw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Peter Thiel but anyone of sound mind -- the top 5 countries by Muslim-majority population are not included. * Indonesia 204,847,000 (87.2%) * Pakistan 178,097,000 (96.4%) * India 172,245,158 (14.2%) * Bangladesh 145,312,000 (90%) * Nigeria 75,728,000 (47.9%) If Indonesia suddenly became plagued by radical Islamic terrorism then it would be on the list too. The seven countries targeted by the immigration…

Why were Saudi Arabia and Egypt left off the list? That's where most of the 9/11 hijackers and planners hailed from. I think you're hearing echoes in your "sound mind."

Most of the countries banned by the president were determined by the Department of Homeland Security. Read the order itself: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/27/execu...

Your ad hominem attacks are not welcome here.