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Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

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Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#161

Post by bastawhiz »

yladiz wrote: post #130
bastawhiz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Uber engineer here) The data is used for (or can be used for) a number of practical and important purposes. These are some examples of what we do as well as what we could do with such data: - Fighting fraud - Improving "suggested pickup" locations - Improvements around POOL (we'd rather suggest a location that's easy to pick up from than one that's unsafe) - Figuring out what side of the street you end up on (we can…

So a follow up question: which is that data used for and which could it be used for currently, and what's planned? I also noticed you said that it's queried in aggregate, but that is distinct from it living in aggregate. Does this mean that you actually do keep my individual GPS data and it could be looked up later? I am still unconvinced that this is necessary, even with those (potential) improvements. I am relative…

> which is that data used for and which could it be used for currently, and what's planned?

I don't know specific programs that are in place or upcoming, not my jam.

> Does this mean that you actually do keep my individual GPS data and it could be looked up later?

Trip location data is attached to users. You can look it up yourself on the Uber website (riders.uber.com). With regard to data collected from rider devices, I don't know the technical details but I assume it's not living in aggregate.

At the end of the day, we're an engineering- and data-driven company. Pickups and dropoffs are overwhelmingly the most painful parts of the average Uber ride, and we know startlingly little about them: that's what this initiative is about. We want to make things better for our users, and overwhelmingly, things like this do lead to improvements. Whether you trust what we do with the five minutes of data is up to you. I'm not here to speak about our character, though I certainly wouldn't be around if I thought Uber is a bad company.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#163

Post by ohwello »

username223 wrote: post #148
bastawhiz wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uber has a reputation and history of being a "shady" company. I'm not going to try to defend our reputation. But it's worth saying that things are locked down _pretty damn tight_ around sensitive data. I've worked in enterprise file storage in the past, and the internal security at Uber is far better (relatively speaking), and continues to mature.

> I'm not going to try to defend our reputation [as a shady company]. Someone well above your pay grade probably should. As far as I can tell, Uber's business model is psychopathic levels of regulatory and psychological arbitrage.

What is "psychological arbitrage"?

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#164

Post by bastawhiz »

0xmohit wrote: post #144
bastawhiz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Uber engineer here) The data is used for (or can be used for) a number of practical and important purposes. These are some examples of what we do as well as what we could do with such data: - Fighting fraud - Improving "suggested pickup" locations - Improvements around POOL (we'd rather suggest a location that's easy to pick up from than one that's unsafe) - Figuring out what side of the street you end up on (we can…

Why can't you let the feature be opt-in? Your iOS app effectively turns useless when choosing "Never". You can't do anything other than booking a cab. No access to account information, ride information, anything else. ---- Yeah, I get what it is when you say: Improving "suggested pickup" locations If your app watches me 24x7, then it'd be able to predict pickup locations better. Good job. It can't get creepier.

Suggested pickup locations are a feature we have in SF:

https://techcrunch.com/2015/07/08/uber-suggested-pickup-poin...

All it does is help you pick spots near your pickup location that are more easily accessible to drivers.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#165

Post by bastawhiz »

koticheshte wrote: post #155
bastawhiz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Uber engineer here) The data is used for (or can be used for) a number of practical and important purposes. These are some examples of what we do as well as what we could do with such data: - Fighting fraud - Improving "suggested pickup" locations - Improvements around POOL (we'd rather suggest a location that's easy to pick up from than one that's unsafe) - Figuring out what side of the street you end up on (we can…

Can individual users get access to their own data? Can they take this data with them, similar to Google's takeout?

Check out riders.uber.com

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#166

Post by ap22213 »

amluto wrote: post #26

I really wish that both Android and iOS had an option to outright prevent an app from doing anything in the background. No sensors, no location, no push notifications, no network access, no CPU time, URL protocols, no nothing. If I don't click the little app icon, the app shouldn't run, full stop.

Would be nice. But, then only the carriers and the platform owners get to track you. That's not really fair, either.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#167

Post by AlexandrB »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #62
synicalx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I accept it because I don't really care if Uber knows where I am for a couple of minutes after they drop me off. Not everyone's cup of tea, but if you don't like it there's nothing stopping you from uninstalling the app.

The issue then becomes Uber is doing it so all the other ride hailing apps start doing it. This is how the Overton Window shifts, and how our right to privacy is rapidly eroded.

If you described 2016 to me in 2004, I'd call you a paranoid lunatic, yet here we are. I'm starting to realize that many of the "alarmist" voices [1] of that time were, in fact, optimistic.

Thinking about what's considered "alarmist" today makes me fear for the future.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/you-are-a-suspect....

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#168

Post by lbotos »

nojvek wrote: post #160
yladiz wrote: post #34

I saw this earlier and had hopes that the update would just let me choose "While Using" in the app settings, like some other apps allow you even if they request access even while not using the app, but the settings only allow for "Always" or "Never" on iPhone. However, you can use Uber without allowing GPS, so it's not all or nothing. I'm a little disturbed that they need any information after I use Uber though. They…

Well it's the same company that creepily gives me a code interview in the app because it knows I go to a software company couple of times a week and pushes a job ad. Uber has a lot of sensitive information regarding users. Who goes where and when. This in the wrong hand can be very disastrous. E.g Trump to Uber: "gimme list of all people who to to mosques frequently. No tax for you." Uber: "Here you go. Just don't te…

While I love this scenario from a "Trump could abuse his power" narrative, have there been any recorded cases of businesses in America getting "Secret" tax breaks? Seems like it'd be pretty hard to pull off with the IRS.

Sure, maybe they "Bundled" that data it in to some ~other~ lobbied tax deal, but I'd imagine someone would whistle blow that pretty quick in this post-snowden world?

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#169

Post by callalex »

lttlrck wrote: post #63
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you know Lyft doesn't do that? They let me not let them. Lyft lets me tell iOS to share my location with it only "while using the app". Uber used to do this. But now that option has disappeared--it's only "always" or "never".

Waze doesn't allow "while using the app" either making it unusable unless you give it unfettered access to your location at all times.

As soon as they did that I stopped using Waze. My battery life also improved significantly as a result.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#170

Post by pilsetnieks »

bastawhiz wrote: post #91
yladiz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but why does Uber need/care about that information? If I ask to be dropped off at X and walk a couple blocks to Y, Uber shouldn't care. I can understand the argument that maybe going to certain buildings you have to be dropped off at a specific spot, but that seems like a minor gain for something that's more than just a minor intrusion.

(Uber engineer here) The data is used for (or can be used for) a number of practical and important purposes. These are some examples of what we do as well as what we could do with such data: - Fighting fraud - Improving "suggested pickup" locations - Improvements around POOL (we'd rather suggest a location that's easy to pick up from than one that's unsafe) - Figuring out what side of the street you end up on (we can…

> Individual users' data is very closely guarded internally. It's immensely difficult to look at user data without specific access. Overwhelmingly, this data is queried in aggregate and fed into machine learning systems. The risk of abuse is exceptionally low.

It is impossible to take your word for it. After so, so many companies have been caught intentionally or unintentionally mishandling user data, there is no reason to believe that Uber is the exception.

An extraordinary claim demands extraordinary proof.

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