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Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

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Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#161

Post by theli0nheart »

Zak wrote: post #118
theli0nheart wrote: post #98

Hasn't anyone else realized that this rule is totally unenforceable? How is Apple going to find out if something was originally written with Unity3D or Clojure? Everything is submitted to them as a binary. You can't inspect a binary and figure out what language the code that generated it was originally written in. So seriously, what's the problem here? Either there is none or I'm missing something.

$ ghc --make helloworld.hs $ strings helloworld|grep ghc|wc -l 19 $ csc helloworld.scm $ strings helloworld|grep chicken|wc -l 1 There are more telltales that might be harder to mask. Other tools have similar giveaways. It wouldn't be hard to set up an automated test for the most common ones.

Right but I'm assuming that these 3rd party tools are actually converting code to Objective-C / C / C++ and then compiling...is that right?

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#163

Post by aerique »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #152
DannoHung wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sandboxing an application is a bit different than mandating that the code be originally written in a certain way, regardless of what they compile to.

But the mandate only applies if you want to sell the app in their store. Steve's not telling you how to write your code. He's telling you how to write code if you want him to sell it for you to his customers.

But if you don't want to jailbreak your phone there aren't many other stores to choose from for the iPhone, are there?

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#164

Post by varjag »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #111
cousin_it wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really can't see why folks are getting their knickers in a twist. Your use of demeaning language doesn't make your opponents wrong. wouldn't we just consider it a bone-headed move, and not the cause for moral outrage? It's both. Legality != morality. A business practice can be perfectly legal but immoral. Of course you can say anything Apple does is moral because it's within their rights, but there are also other w…

OK, then explain the consequences to me. A store-owner decides he wants to put an arbitrary restriction on the types of items he sells in his store. Let's say, perhaps, that a grocery store decides to stock only Organic produce. What's the moral harm?

If it's the only store in the town, there's plenty of harm.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#166

Post by commieneko »

krschultz wrote: post #146
commieneko wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is acceptable for Apple to sell its hardware/software under any kind license that it wants to, as long as it isn't illegal. No one is under any obligation to develop for their platform. There are very real advantages to their closed wall approach; which console device makers have been doing for years. You pays your money and takes your choice (or visa versa...)

Everyone understands that. What people are pissed off about is the "originally" part. Lets agree that the only acceptable compiler is approved by Apple and that's it. Ok fine. Now what is the material difference between me hand typing code into a source file and building it with the compiler, or me generating the source file with a tool and then it gets compiled? Apple has no way to know that you have done the latter…

No, that's like Sony telling you that you have to use their development garden, which, the last time I looked into console development, they did...

I'm pretty sure the agreement says nothing about what kind of keyboard you should use :) But if Apple wanted to specify that in their license, that's entirely within their rights.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#167

Post by eagleal »

MaysonL wrote: post #165

I wonder if the restrictions on language used in development will also apply to their new ad program?

As I understood, the developers will access the iAd network via APIs. Is the APIs available for different ad networks or only iAd.

This is interesting because the thing where this is not clear, it's the fact that Jobs said you can use any ad serving network. Bur if the APIs are available only for the iAd, and since you are stack with Apple approval process (and the language restrictions) you can't use 3rd party technology (eg. embedding Flash ads), and as a result you can't use any other network.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#168

Post by jongraehl »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #158
krschultz wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a good analogy. Those selling non-organic produce have plenty of other places to take their goods. They are commodities. Anyone who has invested in a language layer technology can't do that. You can't take your Flash -> Objective-C compiler and sell it anywhere else. Apple just forced you to lose all of your investment for no good reason. It's like offering communal grazing areas. A bunch of ranchers decid…

But Apple never offered a "communal grazing area". The iPhone has been a closed platform from day one, and everybody developing for the iPhone already had a metric buttload of restrictions on them. If the ranchers decided to move their cattle to an area in the hopes that they might find communal grazing available, well, they took a risk, and lost. That's business. Sellers of non-organic produce have plenty of other p…

You appear to be arguing that we shouldn't complain that Apple's closed platform is obnoxious, or hate Steve Jobs for being an anti-programmer jerk, or encourage people to avoid Apple. Nobody said that some existing legal or moral authority should force Apple to treat us nice.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#169

Post by commieneko »

latch wrote: post #147

You know, this whole Apple thing finally makes sense to me. They are simply trying to tie their developer community to their platform. Now is the time to do it, when competition is low. There's virtually no chance of this having any noticeable impact in its established community of developers. By year-end, when competition is a bit stronger, the groundwork they've put in place today will make it less likely that deve…

> They are simply trying to tie their developer community to their platform.

No, they are trying to tie the _consumer_ to their platform. They couldn't care less about developers outside them providing consumers a reason to buy their product. (and as a source of revenue.)

Apple _does_ want to control what _media_ can be played on their platform. And they way to control that is to control what developers can do. Notice there is no VLC on the iPhone? No Mplayer? No open codecs what-so-ever. (and certainly no FLASH...) At some point expect there to be a (surprise!!!) clamp down on h264 encoding, enforced by patents and licenses.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#170

Post by ryanhuff »

aerique wrote: post #163
michael_dorfman wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the mandate only applies if you want to sell the app in their store. Steve's not telling you how to write your code. He's telling you how to write code if you want him to sell it for you to his customers.

But if you don't want to jailbreak your phone there aren't many other stores to choose from for the iPhone, are there?

Why does that really matter? If I sold chocolate covered bagels, and I was the only chocolate covered bagel store in town, do I have to serve you?

Or, if you wanted to open your own chocolate covered bagel store in the only mall within 30 miles, does the mall operator have to lease you space?

As a developer, I find the situation painful, but I think Apple views the appstore as their mall, and they want to control the image of their mall by holding the store keepers to a certain standard in order to promote a certain customer experience.

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