Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons • Hacker News Board

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#161

Post by _Codemonkeyism » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 3:34 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #146

GVIrish wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it would only be scary if a media company was taken down by a rich entity simply litigating them until they couldn't afford to fight the lawsuits anymore. In this case, Gawker lost because they were in the wrong. A media company operating with integrity has nothing to fear here.

> A media company operating with integrity has nothing to fear here. Until they do? Gawker is very likely to win on appeal, but who is going to want to invest in Gawker knowing that a litigious billionaire has a grudge against them?

IANAL and I'm no expert in the US justice system.

"Gawker is very likely to win on appeal"

Sounds to me like a flaw in the justice system, if one side hands out high amounts of punishment, then the appeal system systematically reduces the payment. Not something the person who sues or supports the legal action is responsible for.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#162

Post by iamdave » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 3:36 PM UTC

will_brown wrote: post #149

iamdave wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it would only be scary if a media company was taken down by a rich entity simply litigating them until they couldn't afford to fight the lawsuits anymore. In this case, Gawker lost because they were in the wrong. I've read exactly two articles re: Thiel vs. Gawker, but....isn't that exactly what's happening? I don't see Gawker's "wrongness" as entirely relevant to the fact that Thiel is ostensibly subsidizing l…

>I don't see Gawker's "wrongness" as entirely relevant to the fact that Thiel is ostensibly subsidizing litigation... It is directly related...If Gawker was not guilty of committing a tort that resulted in actual damages, then Thiel or anyone else would not be financing litigation against Gawker. >Thiel is ostensibly subsidizing litigation in the hundreds of millions of dollars-just to see Gawker go away. Who gives a…

>Who gives a shit and why?

You know, I'll never understand the immediate and swift "who cares" response when people are discussing a subject as some sort of "Excuse me but...". If there's a disagreement you wish to voice, voice it-let's not act like people aren't interested in it because of your disagreement.

And as I've said, I've only read two articles on this whole thing and the entire ordeal seems sordid to me. I'm not a lawyer, so I wont even begin to pretend like I know what someone should or should not have done in the interests of their own defense, but the "backroom dealer" feel of the whole thing-personally speaking-reeks and doesn't quite sit well with me. I don't have all the answers to this, and I do plan to get more informed.

And further, yes-I suppose if one were to argue using that Obi Wan "from a certain point of view" type of analysis-Gawker's wrongness is Germane so maybe this even falls to me to be more precise in my speaking:

Gawker being in the wrong or Gawker being in the right doesn't change much of the strange sensation I feel when someone ostensibly brings sacks of money to the table in a lawsuit with the intent to win not on the merits of the case but by exhausting legal resources of their legal opponent.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#163

Post by lotso » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 3:38 PM UTC

emblem21 wrote: post #160

Gawker Media is a Cayman Island corporation founded by a foreign national. It does not engage in journalism. It is a blog designed to shift the Overton Window for Jon Stewart's fanbase into normalizing extreme political agendas. Are there any cases that show foreign companies that exist 100% as a tax shelter, founded by a foreign national, have first amendment rights?

>It is a blog designed to shift the Overton Window for Jon Stewart's fanbase into normalizing extreme political agendas.

Like Jezebel being pro-feminism. What an extreme political agenda!

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#164

Post by cderwin » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 3:40 PM UTC

further_tech wrote: post #72

plehoux wrote: post #14

This is totally BS. Litigation finance has been around for years, and has been done by all kind of people and organizations for all kind of purposes. Thiel is rich, he does things, there is no causality with 'tech' here. > Maybe it’s time for Silicon Valley to tone things down. To admit that, no, the Valley can’t solve all human problems -- not even close -- and never will. W T F.

> WTF I don't understand your indignation. Is it that obvious to you the Valley can solve ALL human problems?

Not OP, but it's just a giant false dichotomy. The author is trying to say that because SV can't solve literally every problem on the face of the earth that no one from SV should try to solve this one. Also, I'm not really sure what it means for "Silicon Valley to tone things down" -- what does that mean? Does it mean people in SV shouldn't protect themselves from slander and libel? Does it mean they shouldn't protect others from slander and libel? Does it mean they shouldn't use the court system to go after a cancerous and immature publication that literally ruins good people's lives? Does it mean they shouldn't use the legal system to promote their interests (notably as opposed to the "illegal" system, whatever that would be)? Too me, any of these are preposterous. It honestly sounds like the author is just whining on behalf of Gawker.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#165

Post by maratd » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 3:40 PM UTC

klagermkii wrote: post #154

maratd wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a template for private censorship by the rich. No. Contrary to popular opinion, you can't sue somebody out of existence if they've done nothing wrong. The courts frown on attempts to do that. For you to do something wrong, you had to cause clearly defined harm. If you're causing harm, why shouldn't you be sued out of existence? The injustice here isn't that the rich can eliminate bad actors ... it's that the…

You underestimate the power of being able to turn the Eye of Justice selectively upon individuals or groups of enemies. It's one of the reasons people get so upset with racial or class-based profiling. We may all agree that enforcing speeding laws is a good thing, and someone who gets a ticket for it deserves the fine. But if I could fund the police department to have a car permanently follow just you around and nail…

In your example, you're conflating the actions of a government and the actions of a private individual. Peter Thiel isn't the government.

You are also muddying up scale. In your example, the government is much more powerful than the individual. In the Gawker case, all the parties are pretty much at parity.

There has always been yellow journalism. Gawker isn't new. What is new is that this is the first time an establishment like that got a bloody nose. Usually they're the ones using the legal system to silence those they abuse.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#166

Post by iamdave » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 3:40 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #150

iamdave wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't know, I'm learning more just reading other comments and their accompanying links. To wit, I'm slowly having my understanding of this whole thing shaped and evolved as I read more from others on this-but the impression I picked up from a piece on TheAtlantic was that Thiel was using his buying power essentially to win this case by attrition-which is the aspect of this (if provably true) that I (person…

Well, yes, that's right, but I think it also spans multiple cases, not just the Hogan case.

Ah, see I'm still catching up to most people on the merits of the story; I was not previously aware that Thiel has funded other suits.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#167

Post by lotso » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

Teeboo wrote: post #156

AlexandrB wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So yeh, I am Team Thiel until the press learn to wield their authority with respect and deference. A good/free press does not and should not exhibit respect and deference to those in power. For a counter-example, see the Russian press, which does show a lot of respect and deference to the Russian ruling class.

Who said deference to those in power? I would hope a free press has the respect not to invade the privacy of private citizens. Do you honestly think the videotape of the sexual exploits of a private citizen is somehow worthy of protection under freedom of the press? Not to mention the tape was illegally procured and Gawker continued to act in flagrant violation of the court ordered redactions. You hear deference and…

How can you be Team Thiel and have these opinions when Thiel financially supported the person who made the acorn videos? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_O%27Keefe

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#168

Post by maratd » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #144

maratd wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a template for private censorship by the rich. No. Contrary to popular opinion, you can't sue somebody out of existence if they've done nothing wrong. The courts frown on attempts to do that. For you to do something wrong, you had to cause clearly defined harm. If you're causing harm, why shouldn't you be sued out of existence? The injustice here isn't that the rich can eliminate bad actors ... it's that the…

> Contrary to popular opinion, you can't sue somebody out of existence if they've done nothing wrong. That's absolutely incorrect. There is ample precedent of people using the civil legal system to suppress the media. Perhaps you heard of these guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_law

I was explicitly talking at the US legal system, so the proper link is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_law#Cases_in_t...

Read that over. They did not have a lot of things go their way.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#169

Post by jonknee » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 3:43 PM UTC

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #161

jonknee wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A media company operating with integrity has nothing to fear here. Until they do? Gawker is very likely to win on appeal, but who is going to want to invest in Gawker knowing that a litigious billionaire has a grudge against them?

IANAL and I'm no expert in the US justice system. "Gawker is very likely to win on appeal" Sounds to me like a flaw in the justice system, if one side hands out high amounts of punishment, then the appeal system systematically reduces the payment. Not something the person who sues or supports the legal action is responsible for.

It's not systematic (people frequently lose in appeal!), but the appeals process allows cases that merit a more sophisticated court to get one. This case didn't belong in front of a hometown jury.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#170

Post by _Codemonkeyism » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 3:46 PM UTC

(Not taking sides or condemning/supporting Thiel)

Publications destroy people all the time - at least tabloids here in Germany. Most of those people have no money and can't sue. Journalism is fine when the 800pound Gorilla is on their side. Now once a person aims to destroy the magazine, journalists with pitchforks claim the end is near (aka censorship).

At least this is how it looks from the sideline.