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Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

reuters.com

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Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#151

Post by tamana »

adamlett wrote: post #107
bko wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course money matters in justice, as it matters with everything else. I can't imagine a system in which it doesn't matter. Perhaps if the Bar Association cartel was broken, lawyers would be less expensive, but there needs to be a kind of mechanism to allocate the judicial resources of the state.

You really can't imagine? What if for example the losing party in a law suit was automatically forced to pay the legal expenses of the winning party? That is actually how it works many places outside of the US. It's quite effective at discouraging frivolous lawsuits, and it means that a rich person can't bankrupt a someone by waging a legal attrition war.

US has SLAPP for frivolous lawsuits

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#152

Post by plehoux »

bionsuba wrote: post #80
further_tech wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WTF I don't understand your indignation. Is it that obvious to you the Valley can solve ALL human problems?

No one ever said it would. There's a term for this (I forget it now), but what this person is doing is setting up an easy target to be torn down by creating a ridiculous opinion no one has. Then the author can be seen as the victor; it's really dishonest, and it should make everyone question the veracity of the whole article.

This.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#153

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

If Gawker were something other than tabloid trash, maybe it'd get more support from us non-robber-barons.

Do you think Gawker would spare you, if they thought humiliating you would be popular? Could you do anything about it?

Well, apparently they were stupid enough to humiliate someone who could do something about it. And I'm fine with the results we're seeing.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#154

Post by klagermkii »

maratd wrote: post #131
wrsh07 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither side here looks great. It's reasonable for someone to sue Gawker because of what they publish. It's a bit scary to have someone attempt to take down a publishing company just because of a long-held grudge. That's a template for private censorship by the rich.

> That's a template for private censorship by the rich. No. Contrary to popular opinion, you can't sue somebody out of existence if they've done nothing wrong. The courts frown on attempts to do that. For you to do something wrong, you had to cause clearly defined harm. If you're causing harm, why shouldn't you be sued out of existence? The injustice here isn't that the rich can eliminate bad actors ... it's that the…

You underestimate the power of being able to turn the Eye of Justice selectively upon individuals or groups of enemies. It's one of the reasons people get so upset with racial or class-based profiling.

We may all agree that enforcing speeding laws is a good thing, and someone who gets a ticket for it deserves the fine. But if I could fund the police department to have a car permanently follow just you around and nail you for each transgression, it turns something that is fair for each individual offense into something unfair in aggregate. Even if by doing so I was making the roads safer, and you technically deserved each fine.

I think Peter Thiel is doing something similar and even though Gawker is in the wrong in the individual case and deserves to lose, I strongly dislike being able to keep paying to throw the justice system against your enemies.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#155

Post by iamdave »

mgiannopoulos wrote: post #148
iamdave wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it would only be scary if a media company was taken down by a rich entity simply litigating them until they couldn't afford to fight the lawsuits anymore. In this case, Gawker lost because they were in the wrong. I've read exactly two articles re: Thiel vs. Gawker, but....isn't that exactly what's happening? I don't see Gawker's "wrongness" as entirely relevant to the fact that Thiel is ostensibly subsidizing l…

"Hundreds of millions" The quoted number is 10 million http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/26/business/dealbook/peter...

Thanks for that, not sure where I got the extra multiple of ten from when I'm looking right at articles on this whole story.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#156

Post by Teeboo »

AlexandrB wrote: post #108
Teeboo wrote: post #58

This is why I find myself firmly on Team Thiel. Gawker are using the historical precedent of freedom of the press in order to exploit the private lives of people, illegally, for profit. It is this corrupted pursuit of salacious gossip which led to the hacking of thousands and thousands of voicemails in the United Kingdom by News International. Not just celebrities but political figures and most chillingly, victims of…

> So yeh, I am Team Thiel until the press learn to wield their authority with respect and deference. A good/free press does not and should not exhibit respect and deference to those in power. For a counter-example, see the Russian press, which does show a lot of respect and deference to the Russian ruling class.

Who said deference to those in power?

I would hope a free press has the respect not to invade the privacy of private citizens.

Do you honestly think the videotape of the sexual exploits of a private citizen is somehow worthy of protection under freedom of the press?

Not to mention the tape was illegally procured and Gawker continued to act in flagrant violation of the court ordered redactions.

You hear deference and you immediately go to despot or dictator. The truth is, the press is far more damaging to private citizens than it has ever been to the establishment.

You show me one piece of great investigative journalism and I will show you 10 celebrity reporters lying in the gutters getting upskirt shots of a teen celebrity.

Team Thiel until they learn not to hack voicemails and generally become decent members of society.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#157

Post by dpark »

OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #132
koolba wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The author's beef isn't with Thiel using his money to help sue Gawker, but with him considering this to be philanthropic: >> The problem isn’t the way Thiel used his money. It’s his pretensions about it. But it is philanthropic, it just doesn't align with the author's idea of philanthropy.

What?! You have a seriously messed up idea of the definition of the word philanthropic.

>the desire to promote the welfare of others, expressed especially by the generous donation of money to good causes.

If Thiel believes that sponsoring this lawsuit improves the welfare of others, then it is by definition philanthropy.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#158

Post by lake99 »

ThomPete wrote: post #126
bko wrote: post #17

> Litigation finance is typically a business venture. It doesn’t become charity because a wealthy person uses it as a template for a personal crusade and then insists he’s doing everyone else a favor. Why? Many cases brought by individuals or groups on moral grounds have led the way to better governance. A lot of good work has been done by groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Why should individuals or g…

There is a difference between winning a lawsuit to right a wrong and then to go further and actually try to take down a paper. Whatever Gawker did to Theil it's not worth doing what he is doing but thats up to him. The problem though is that as extreme wealth gets put into fewer hands it allow them to basically bleed anything skeptical to this out. Furthermore and as a sidenote. I find it ironic that Theil of all peo…

Anarcho-capitalists advocate private courts and private enforcement, but that is impossible (at least for cases like this one) to put into practice when an existing government has already established a monopoly on this. Unless the government is abolished, using its facilities is a perfectly reasonable way to settle conflicts. Not only that, in some cases, using government facilities becomes mandatory, whatever your political beliefs. For example, if someone gets murdered in his house, and he is the sole witness, he is bound by law to report it. (At least, this is how I understand the law.)

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#159

Post by randallsquared »

ThomPete wrote: post #126
bko wrote: post #17

> Litigation finance is typically a business venture. It doesn’t become charity because a wealthy person uses it as a template for a personal crusade and then insists he’s doing everyone else a favor. Why? Many cases brought by individuals or groups on moral grounds have led the way to better governance. A lot of good work has been done by groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Why should individuals or g…

There is a difference between winning a lawsuit to right a wrong and then to go further and actually try to take down a paper. Whatever Gawker did to Theil it's not worth doing what he is doing but thats up to him. The problem though is that as extreme wealth gets put into fewer hands it allow them to basically bleed anything skeptical to this out. Furthermore and as a sidenote. I find it ironic that Theil of all peo…

> I find it ironic that Theil of all people, a libertarian who claims we more or less don't need government end up kind of illustrating exactly why we do.

I also find his actions ironic, but maybe for the opposite reason. In funding this lawsuit, Thiel appears to be funding the initiation of force -- bringing the power of government to bear against a private organization which hasn't used force or the threat of force (as far as I know). I would have assumed that as a libertarian, Thiel would be against this sort of thing, as you say, but apparently the temptation to use the State to crush someone he didn't like was too great.

I would disagree with you that his actions illustrate that more of this is exactly what we need, though.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#160

Post by emblem21 »

Gawker Media is a Cayman Island corporation founded by a foreign national. It does not engage in journalism. It is a blog designed to shift the Overton Window for Jon Stewart's fanbase into normalizing extreme political agendas.

Are there any cases that show foreign companies that exist 100% as a tax shelter, founded by a foreign national, have first amendment rights?

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