Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco • Hacker News Board

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#161

Post by branchless » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 2:48 PM UTC

cbeach wrote: post #156

branchless wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those doing the high-paid "work" are often those abusing state granted powers to issue credit. They say to the poor "pledge more of your working life to me in exchange for the right to exist or I will banish you". There is no relationship between value added and money gained in London.

If you don't understand the benefit to society of mortgages and business loans, this really isn't the forum for you.

I understand the benefit of credit but not loose credit. If you don't understand 2008 being a problem then this isn't the planet for you.

I also like water but understand I can drown in it.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#162

Post by dmschulman » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 2:49 PM UTC

laurencerowe wrote: post #67

There's a lot left out in Solnit's article, see: http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/alex-nieto-w...

How can you ignore the inciting incident in this case? Perhaps the victim was a man with some personal issues, but before being harassed by Evan Snow, Alex Nieto was a man minding his own business.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#163

Post by nkrisc » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 2:51 PM UTC

williamcotton wrote: post #142

tptacek wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a person Rebecca Solnit chose to single out, carefully juxtaposing reports of his (incredibly obnoxious) behavior against Nieto's shooting, to which, even by Solnit's account (read carefully), he was not a party . I don't want to get drinks with this character in Solnit's story, either. But I'm not sure we should applaud the tactic of summoning up and focusing outrage on people like this.

I can tell you first hand that the neighborhood has been overrun by men like Evan Snow. Considering you live in Chicago and that Rebecca and I actually live in Bernal Heights I think we have a much better perspective on the situation. Where I come from you don't call the cops because you think you saw "a Mexican crazy man waving a gun around". If you see something, you leave, and you don't say anything to anyone. If…

Calling he police on someone waving a handgun around in public is not "snitching," it's doing everyone a favor.

That said, this isn't directly related to the story at hand as it is not clear that Mr. Nieto was in fact waving a gun around, but appears to be a convenient story from the police to justify having shot him.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#164

Post by mc32 » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 2:53 PM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #84

mc32 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When middle class families move out it's called *-flight. When poor families move out, it's called gentrification. Both are due to economics, some precipitated, not so much by individual bigotry but rather by self interest (the former wanting to preserve value individually in anticipation of devaluation of property, the latter get pushed out due to economics whereby its not viable to remain in a valuating neighborhoo…

I think the difference is choice. White flight is white folks choosing to move out of an area. Gentrification is white folks choosing to move in to an area. No-one else gets a choice. Only the white folks.

It's always a choice. We have freedom of movement, we don't have hukous, we don't assign neighborhoods to people, racist housing policies haven't been a thing for a while.

People need more housing choices, cities need to build more housing at different price points, bug also without strong-arming developers.

People move due to economics. Looking for better, or looking for affordability.

Middle and upper class will also move away from poor whites. See what happens when school districts are consolidated and blue collar kids and middle class upper middle get sent to the same schools, the ones who can move will move.

Also, it's not as if gentrification does not occur in Tokyo or Lagos or Berlin.

Housing stock goes through phases of attractiveness.

What we need is more housing and less useless blaming, blaming will not address any of the issues of housing shortage.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#165

Post by tptacek » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 2:54 PM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #157

tptacek wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a person Rebecca Solnit chose to single out, carefully juxtaposing reports of his (incredibly obnoxious) behavior against Nieto's shooting, to which, even by Solnit's account (read carefully), he was not a party . I don't want to get drinks with this character in Solnit's story, either. But I'm not sure we should applaud the tactic of summoning up and focusing outrage on people like this.

Except this incident precipitated the other events by likely distressing Alex Nieto and causing him to appear agitated.

I do not like being manipulated by journalists abusing their positions to push their preferred narrative.

Solnit would like us to believe Snow was complicit in Nieto's killing, because it supports her narrative.

Surely Solnit was made aware, before this article was published, of critically important details, like Nieto's diagnosed and medicated psychosis (he was off his meds), or his record of having violently confronted people in that same park. She chose to leave those details out of her story, entirely, because it would have muddied the point she hoped to make.

Meanwhile, Solnit is perfectly happy to write the story in such a way that a casual reader would have believe Snow was at fault. Some readers on this thread have apparently come away with the impression that it was him who called 911!

Psychosis: not important for us to know about. Later unrelated racist text message between friends: very important for us to know about. You don't feel manipulated?

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#166

Post by deong » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 2:56 PM UTC

navait wrote: post #103

> Evan Snow, a thirtysomething “user experience design professional”..., who had moved to the neighbourhood about six months earlier (and who has since departed for a more suburban environment) > Snow never seemed to recognise that his out-of-control dog was the aggressor: “So Luna was, I think, looking to move around the benches or behind me to run up happily to get a chip from Mr Nieto. Mr Nieto became further – wh…

Without knowing anything more than what was written in the article, I think the clear intent is that he's supposed to fit the techbro stereotype exactly. I think this article crosses the line into propaganda to ensure that one way or another, that's what the reader will take away.

That's not to say the underlying story they want to tell is necessarily wrong. I'd agree with the basic thesis that gentrified neighborhoods bring in people who cause no ends of problems for the people who have lived there forever, with in some cases, tragic consequences. And the guy may genuinely be exactly the preppy little asshole they're telling me he is. But my general political sensitivities are already as "bleeding-heart-lefty" as you can imagine, and if you cherry pick bits of my life -- "chief software engineer, according to LinkedIn", "likes golf", etc., you can paint pretty much any picture you like.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#167

Post by cbeach » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

branchless wrote: post #161

cbeach wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't understand the benefit to society of mortgages and business loans, this really isn't the forum for you.

I understand the benefit of credit but not loose credit. If you don't understand 2008 being a problem then this isn't the planet for you. I also like water but understand I can drown in it.

The problem in 2008 was that credit dried up! Remember? The "credit crunch"? A lack of available credit? Which ground the economy to a halt?

#facepalm

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#168

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

Xylakant wrote: post #117

BillinghamJ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as shooting to not kill. Officers are (correctly) trained that if they are in a situation which warrants them shooting, they should use all of the bullets currently loaded into their gun. The issue is that in the US, officers seem to come to the conclusion that killing the person is warranted way too quickly.

Obviously then the US police officers are trained badly. For 2012 the stats for the german police are: 36 bullets fired at humans, 20 injured, 8 dead. 54 bullets fired as warning shots. So it's possible to incapacitate. Stats for other european countries are similar. Firing 40 bullets at a single human, some of them after the suspect has been hit multiple times and is on the ground (and still missing the majority of…

Meanwhile, the NYPD fires 16 times in a single incident and hits nine bystanders. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander...

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#169

Post by williamcotton » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 2:58 PM UTC

jon-wood wrote: post #159

williamcotton wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you first hand that the neighborhood has been overrun by men like Evan Snow. Considering you live in Chicago and that Rebecca and I actually live in Bernal Heights I think we have a much better perspective on the situation. Where I come from you don't call the cops because you think you saw "a Mexican crazy man waving a gun around". If you see something, you leave, and you don't say anything to anyone. If…

This just feels like another damning indictment of US policing. "Don't call the cops, because innocent people will end up getting shot." In most civilised countries you can call the police without first wondering if its worth the risk of bystanders ending up dead.

It absolutely is another damning indictment of US policing.

There are two very different worlds here. The world Eric Snow lives in and the world Alex Nieto was taken from.

Eric Snow and Justin Fritz don't know the rules and never bothered to find out the rules yet decided to live in this world. Their actions got people shot.

Is this ideal? Hell no! It shouldn't be like this. No one fucking wants this. But pretending like it doesn't exist is irresponsible.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#170

Post by raldi » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 2:58 PM UTC

swampthinker wrote: post #151

mooseburger wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"walking while hispanic" I'm hispanic, Puertorican to be exact. Guy seemed to be dressed like a hoodlum in all images I can see in the article. I get nervous when I see people dressed like that here in San Juan, and he definitely would have seemed shady wandering around in a park, alone, dressed like that. Sure, maybe it's not tolerant to judge someone like that based on what they wear, but at the same time, I can't…

Are you serious? It's a fucking 49er's jacket and some black pants. That's nowhere near close enough to be considered "dressed as a cholo". It's the fact that some white transplant saw a Hispanic guy wearing a bomber jacket and Snapback hat, and decided that was a suspicious look. That's frankly " walking while Hispanic"

Why do you omit the part about him carrying and allegedly pointing around an object that looked just like a handgun?