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Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

theguardian.com

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Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#151

Post by swampthinker »

mooseburger wrote: post #79
RVuRnvbM2e wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether he did or not is almost irrelevant. The police wouldn't have even been there if some dude hadn't decided to call 911 on the guy for "walking while hispanic": > Fritz said he only saw Nieto pacing near a bench and eating from a bag but did not himself see any weapon. http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-testified-alex-nieto...

>"walking while hispanic" I'm hispanic, Puertorican to be exact. Guy seemed to be dressed like a hoodlum in all images I can see in the article. I get nervous when I see people dressed like that here in San Juan, and he definitely would have seemed shady wandering around in a park, alone, dressed like that. Sure, maybe it's not tolerant to judge someone like that based on what they wear, but at the same time, I can't…

Are you serious? It's a fucking 49er's jacket and some black pants. That's nowhere near close enough to be considered "dressed as a cholo".

It's the fact that some white transplant saw a Hispanic guy wearing a bomber jacket and Snapback hat, and decided that was a suspicious look. That's frankly " walking while Hispanic"

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#152

Post by [deleted] »

mooseburger wrote: post #79
RVuRnvbM2e wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether he did or not is almost irrelevant. The police wouldn't have even been there if some dude hadn't decided to call 911 on the guy for "walking while hispanic": > Fritz said he only saw Nieto pacing near a bench and eating from a bag but did not himself see any weapon. http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-testified-alex-nieto...

>"walking while hispanic" I'm hispanic, Puertorican to be exact. Guy seemed to be dressed like a hoodlum in all images I can see in the article. I get nervous when I see people dressed like that here in San Juan, and he definitely would have seemed shady wandering around in a park, alone, dressed like that. Sure, maybe it's not tolerant to judge someone like that based on what they wear, but at the same time, I can't…

[deleted]

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#153

Post by tptacek »

Tomte wrote: post #146
tptacek wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you fire a gun at someone, your goal is to kill them. If you're confronting an armed subject and you manage only to wound them, then not only are you making it possible for the to shoot you back, but you're making it overwhelmingly likely that they will --- who could blame them for trying desperately to save their own lives? So to me, 1 bullet, 20 bullets, 40 bullets, who cares? Dead is dead. If you don't want p…

Dozens of bullets sounds excessive. Very certainly killing someone usually takes far fewer bullets. This amount of gunfire always suggests an emotional component to me, hatred or something. That's only very generally speaking, of course. I can imagine situations where dozens of shots are rational.

That's why the number of bullets always gets reported: it supports a narrative about angry police. But ask around (really try): the police are trained to do this. Emotion isn't a major component of bullet count --- though it is a huge component in the decision to fire a gun in the first place.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#154

Post by laut »

ashray wrote: post #10

Is there no rent control in SF or other US cities? How do people get priced out?

Yes SF and NYC have rent control. And other regulations that make it less profitable to build and rent out homes. This reduces supply of rental homes, which increases prices.

"In many cases rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city - except for bombing." - Assar Lindbeck

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#155

Post by nkrisc »

mooseburger wrote: post #79
RVuRnvbM2e wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether he did or not is almost irrelevant. The police wouldn't have even been there if some dude hadn't decided to call 911 on the guy for "walking while hispanic": > Fritz said he only saw Nieto pacing near a bench and eating from a bag but did not himself see any weapon. http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-testified-alex-nieto...

>"walking while hispanic" I'm hispanic, Puertorican to be exact. Guy seemed to be dressed like a hoodlum in all images I can see in the article. I get nervous when I see people dressed like that here in San Juan, and he definitely would have seemed shady wandering around in a park, alone, dressed like that. Sure, maybe it's not tolerant to judge someone like that based on what they wear, but at the same time, I can't…

Wearing 49ers jacket and hat in San Francisco is dressing like a hoodlum?

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#156

Post by cbeach »

branchless wrote: post #144
cbeach wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those doing low-paid work in London are obviously important to the city, but I'd argue that those doing high-paid work make more sense to live in the city because theirs is the work that benefits most from the agglomeration that big cities provide. If low-paid workers have to travel further, then their wages will be forced upwards as a result. Employers are forced to pay prevailing market rates to get the staff they…

Those doing the high-paid "work" are often those abusing state granted powers to issue credit. They say to the poor "pledge more of your working life to me in exchange for the right to exist or I will banish you". There is no relationship between value added and money gained in London.

If you don't understand the benefit to society of mortgages and business loans, this really isn't the forum for you.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#157

Post by nkrisc »

tptacek wrote: post #113
navait wrote: post #103

> Evan Snow, a thirtysomething “user experience design professional”..., who had moved to the neighbourhood about six months earlier (and who has since departed for a more suburban environment) > Snow never seemed to recognise that his out-of-control dog was the aggressor: “So Luna was, I think, looking to move around the benches or behind me to run up happily to get a chip from Mr Nieto. Mr Nieto became further – wh…

This is a person Rebecca Solnit chose to single out, carefully juxtaposing reports of his (incredibly obnoxious) behavior against Nieto's shooting, to which, even by Solnit's account (read carefully), he was not a party . I don't want to get drinks with this character in Solnit's story, either. But I'm not sure we should applaud the tactic of summoning up and focusing outrage on people like this.

Except this incident precipitated the other events by likely distressing Alex Nieto and causing him to appear agitated.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#158

Post by tptacek »

NumberCruncher wrote: post #126
tptacek wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the police shot this person at all is a tragedy, but the number of bullets --- a detail reported brethlessly in all police shooting stories --- isn't particularly important. Police training demands they shoot to kill. The notion of using a firearm merely to wound is mostly a TV fiction. Especially with a subject they believe to be armed (as with this case, where someone called 911 reporting a gun), if the police…

If somebody gets shot by the police because of having a gun like taser than, well, it´s exactly the right time to talk about gun culture and gun control.

I agree completely.

In this case, it's worth remembering that the victim was reported, in a 911 call, to have been carrying a pistol. Not a taser. The police came to the park to confront an armed subject. Upon finding him, they told him to show his hands. He refused, and then pulled out his weapon.

The police would have had just moments to decide what to do. You can imagine the level of adrenaline they were dealing with was such that they could probably taste it.

The police obviously made the wrong decision. But they were set up, by circumstances and by a system that forces police to make split-second life-or-death decisions like this routinely.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#159

Post by jon-wood »

williamcotton wrote: post #142
tptacek wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a person Rebecca Solnit chose to single out, carefully juxtaposing reports of his (incredibly obnoxious) behavior against Nieto's shooting, to which, even by Solnit's account (read carefully), he was not a party . I don't want to get drinks with this character in Solnit's story, either. But I'm not sure we should applaud the tactic of summoning up and focusing outrage on people like this.

I can tell you first hand that the neighborhood has been overrun by men like Evan Snow. Considering you live in Chicago and that Rebecca and I actually live in Bernal Heights I think we have a much better perspective on the situation. Where I come from you don't call the cops because you think you saw "a Mexican crazy man waving a gun around". If you see something, you leave, and you don't say anything to anyone. If…

This just feels like another damning indictment of US policing. "Don't call the cops, because innocent people will end up getting shot." In most civilised countries you can call the police without first wondering if its worth the risk of bystanders ending up dead.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#160

Post by nkrisc »

navait wrote: post #103

> Evan Snow, a thirtysomething “user experience design professional”..., who had moved to the neighbourhood about six months earlier (and who has since departed for a more suburban environment) > Snow never seemed to recognise that his out-of-control dog was the aggressor: “So Luna was, I think, looking to move around the benches or behind me to run up happily to get a chip from Mr Nieto. Mr Nieto became further – wh…

On a side note: people like this should not be allowed to own dogs. He clearly has no control over it.
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