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Groupon Is Laying Off 1,100, Shutters Operations in 7 Countries

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Re: Groupon Is Laying Off 1,100, Shutters Operations in 7 Countries

#161

So on what contract were these 1100 people employed? 0 hours guaranteed, get in and get paid for the hours you work and your contract can be terminated any day? It always baffles me to see a thousand(s) of people getting laid of with the flick of a finger. That's like an equal amount of people added to the economy unemployed, right now.

Illinois is an at-will state, so like any other employee in the state they can be let go at any time for any reason, with the exception of a few protected classes, since we also have a state Employment Non-Discrimination law.

Re: Groupon Is Laying Off 1,100, Shutters Operations in 7 Countries

#162
post #41
post #16

I'll be honest, I know Groupon and its ilk are terrible business, but as a user of the service I've had lots of fun exploring activities and restaurants that I literally would never have bothered with or known about. In the last few weeks I've taken a Scuba lesson, a Horse Riding lesson, an intro to art class, found a couple new amazing sandwich shops. I took an amazing trip to Ireland for something like 50% off the…

I stopped using groupon because of the near-universal resentment I felt from the employees of the stores selling the groupons. Clearly, these businesses weren't getting the value they thought they would get, but I wonder how much of that was the way they treated the new customers that the groupon generated.

Not to defend the attitude/behavior of the employees, but I can share my perspective as someone who has managed a small food business that repeatedly used Groupons (because they worked for us, despite what I'm about to describe).

There was always a large minority of Groupon users trying to get the rules bent/broken in their favor--so for example, the Groupon they purchased might say "Only useable Monday-Thursday, does not stack with any other Groupon, coupon, promotion, or discount" and then they'd come in on a Saturday and try to use their Groupon with another discount. When we'd explain why that wasn't possible, they'd complain, hold up service for other customers, and/or write negative online reviews. This happened pretty consistently over the course of 2 years and 3 different Groupon deals we had.

However, we were not a restaurant--we sold pre-packaged gourmet sweets--and so none of our employees depended on tips to get paid. We also had high profit margin on our goods, so we still made a good amount of profit with the discounted Groupon prices. Additionally, despite the above-described behavior happening consistently, we had even more Groupon users discover the place for the first time, and then become returning and loyal customers.

So Groupon worked out for us, but I think it's because we had a pretty unique situation.

Re: Groupon Is Laying Off 1,100, Shutters Operations in 7 Countries

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that before even trying Groupon. I can't imagine how coming in as a 2nd-class customer will improve my experience. Rather pay well, tip big and enjoy the best service they have to offer. Also, as an Engineer with a 1st-world salary, its socially responsible for me to spread it around.

"Also, as an Engineer with a 1st-world salary, its socially responsible for me to spread it around." ...

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Re: Groupon Is Laying Off 1,100, Shutters Operations in 7 Countries

#164
post #146
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same reason why I'm careful which site I book hotel rooms on. Years ago I thought hotels.com was great and convenient, now I realize your experience is tainted from the moment you book with a third party. Now I make every attempt to book direct.

For hotels the majority of bookings come from third party sites. Why would hotels use third party sites regularly if they hate serving customers that book with them?

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Re: Groupon Is Laying Off 1,100, Shutters Operations in 7 Countries

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on her likely experience with the previous ten groupon customers, you basically announced "I intend to tip you 25% of what you were expecting."

But rudeness in wait staff is a self-fulfilling prophecy. They treat you poorly so how can they expect a generous tip?

Yes, there's an element of self-fulfilling prophecy about it, but there's also acceptance of the inevitable. I know a few servers who I trust would remain professional and courteous to groupon customers. Universally complain that groupon users make poor customers. (Not strictly limited to groupon. "$2 specials everywhere" bar crawls of any ilk draw similar complaints.) I mean, it's not like all the servers got together and decided to A/B test groupon customers by being meaner to them than others just for the funsies. How does a server with no priors come to treat one group differently than another?

Re: Groupon Is Laying Off 1,100, Shutters Operations in 7 Countries

#166
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure a lot of people do that, but the appropriate etiquette when using a coupon at a restaurant is to tip on the full price. Most adults who frequent restaurants should know that.

You know that most of the world's population doesn't tip at all? Given that, it seems kind of strange to assume everyone just knows the appropriate tipping etiquette without being told when getting the coupon or sitting down. Plus the most active users of groupon are probably doing it to save as much money as possible with coupons. They're unlikely to willingly throw away those savings on massive tips... and from wha…

I would guess that he meant to say most "American" adults should know better.

Re: Groupon Is Laying Off 1,100, Shutters Operations in 7 Countries

#167
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure a lot of people do that, but the appropriate etiquette when using a coupon at a restaurant is to tip on the full price. Most adults who frequent restaurants should know that.

You know that most of the world's population doesn't tip at all? Given that, it seems kind of strange to assume everyone just knows the appropriate tipping etiquette without being told when getting the coupon or sitting down. Plus the most active users of groupon are probably doing it to save as much money as possible with coupons. They're unlikely to willingly throw away those savings on massive tips... and from wha…

I was replying to your comment specifically about tipping customs in the US. If you grow up in the US and go to restaurants it's not unreasonable to absorb tipping etiquette along the way.

You still save money with a coupon, you're not paying full price for the meal. That's no reason to screw over the server who depends on tips for a living. If someone is seriously strapped for cash and needs to save money, they should be cooking at home, not going to restaurants.

Don't get me wrong, I'd happily do away with the whole tipping culture and just have the entire price printed on the menu. But, as long as we have tips, take the time to learn how to do it right.

Re: Groupon Is Laying Off 1,100, Shutters Operations in 7 Countries

#168
post #148
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same reason why I'm careful which site I book hotel rooms on. Years ago I thought hotels.com was great and convenient, now I realize your experience is tainted from the moment you book with a third party. Now I make every attempt to book direct.

though, hotels often do themselves no favours here. If an aggregator has rooms for $200 a night and the hotel gets 80% of that, you'd think the hotel would take 100% of $200 from a direct booking, but often it'll be $300+... Conceptually, booking direct should be cheaper since the hotel sees all of the money (and users of an aggregator pay for the convenience/discovery/ease factor)

Some of the big chains now have a "best rate guarantee" intended partly as marketing, and partly to pressure their franchisees to offer the cheapest rates through the official booking channel. If you book directly and then find a cheaper rate elsewhere within 24 hrs, they'll match + usually give you something extra. For example Holiday Inn matches plus makes the first night free; Hyatt matches plus an extra 20% discount; etc. This is enforced by corporate management's customer service, but gets charged back to the individual hotel, making for interesting dynamics.

In practice whether this actually works is all over the map. Some chains will deny the claim if the cancellation terms are even slightly different, e.g. they'll say the rate on the official site was more expensive but doesn't violate the best-rate guarantee, because it allows cancellation until 6pm, instead of 5pm, which is a better set of terms. This then makes it easy to discount in third-party channels without technically violating the guarantee, by deliberately modifying the terms slightly. Other chains follow closer to the spirit of the "guarantee", but it's a bit of a lottery.

As for why they don't just offer their best rates on the official channel to begin with, without some kind of policing from the franchiser: mostly, it's market segmentation based on price sensitivity. People booking at an aggregator are more likely to have no real brand loyalty and be sorting by price, so hotel owners want to discount their rates to show up competitively in the comparison. But people booking through hyatt.com or holidayinn.com are more likely to have brand loyalty, possibly be accumulating points/status on the company dime, possibly are already committed to a specific hotel, etc. The hotel in this channel isn't competing as directly with side-by-side search results from other brands, so doesn't want to unnecessarily discount. It's in the brand's long-term interest if the official channel becomes known as having the best rates, but each individual hotel may sometimes benefit from charging more through the official channel and discounting elsewhere, hence this back-and-forth between the franchise owners and the brand management.

Re: Groupon Is Laying Off 1,100, Shutters Operations in 7 Countries

#169
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was essentially, when it was novel, a new acquisition channel. It also had a touch of loan-sharking from what I understand. I could be wrong about the exact details but I believe one of the main attractions was that a business could do a Groupon, and get all the money from the Groupons sold as soon as the promo was completed, but still have weeks or months for the customers to actually trickle in and claim the o…

How is that "loan-sharking"? Seems to be pretty much just run of sale of redeemable credits. Loan-sharking means that someone is making money by charging high interest rates on loans -- here, the "loan", insofar as there is one, is effectively from the customer to the business, and there is no interest being charged on it.

It was intended as a euphemism, not a literal example of loan sharking.

But the analogy holds. Selling something for 20% of its value with the expectation of having to fulfill the order in a few months is effectively the same as paying an extreme rate of interest on short term business financing.

Re: Groupon Is Laying Off 1,100, Shutters Operations in 7 Countries

#170
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now we have instacart, postmates, Amazon Prime Now, Peapod, and more making this model work of fast, local, delivery. We also have smartphones now. I was a big fan of Kozmo (and its NYC competitor UrbanFetch) but it was an entirely different kind of experience shopping on an EGA monitor with a dialup connection and I understand why it wasn't as easy to make it work.

I find it very dubious that you had an EGA monitor hooked up to a machine capable of surfing the Internet, in the very late 1990s/early 2000s.

I can't get away with hyperbole on HN huh? Ah well ;-)
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