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The Open-Office Trap

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151–160 of 194 posts

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#151
post #43

Well, Facebook is building the world's largest open bullpen office, with 2800 workers in 1 room(!) I wonder what they think of this research that shows open office plans being detrimental. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/27/article-2331658-1A... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2584738/Now-T...

OMG, that's terrible. 2800 people in a room?!

But think of the EPIC Nerf Wars this will allow!

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#152
post #22

Open office plans seem really polarizing on HN, but it surprises me how often people defend them here (or even evangelize them). For software development, it seems like something that has no upside at all (aside from saving money on office space), and tons of downsides. For the people who do prefer them (and also spend most of their time writing code), I would be curious to know the following: (1) How many years have…

[deleted]

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to work in an open floor plan that was without barking dogs, nerf guns, loud meetings, and the occasional R/C helicopter. I work from home 75% now. When I'm in the office, I get next to nothing done.

Dogs at work?!

I see all of those things in my office for sure.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#154
post #22

Open office plans seem really polarizing on HN, but it surprises me how often people defend them here (or even evangelize them). For software development, it seems like something that has no upside at all (aside from saving money on office space), and tons of downsides. For the people who do prefer them (and also spend most of their time writing code), I would be curious to know the following: (1) How many years have…

I'm apparently one of the few unashamed Open Office boosters here, so let me see if I can help. I've worked as a developer for about 12+ years, then as a product/project manager for about 4 years. As a developer, I worked about half that time in soft-walled cubicles of various heights and another half in open office environments. I spent a year or so in a shared walled office. As a project guy, I spent about 3 years…

I'm a developer, and to be brutally honest, I tend to procrastinate when left to my own devices. It's much harder to do that in an open office, and I feel much more productive in one.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#155
post #20

The open/closed office thing seems like chocolate vs. vanilla. Some people love one and hate the other. Some are okay with both. I've worked in both, at several companies. I generally prefer open office plans. Clearly other people don't. Everyone is different. There is no RIGHT answer, just RIGHT for you, or for your team...

The article makes a very clear case against this notion that it's a personal opinion. The problem is while you might like it, you also don't have a continuing objective measure of your own costs of working in an open office plan. For example, are you measuring your epinephrine levels? As one of the developers who has a interruption surplus (get interrupted more than I interrupt others), I really dislike open offices,…

Not my epinephrine levels no, but RescueTime does let you know when you're working more productively than others I guess.

The horror stories here seem to be giant rooms full of inconsiderate loud frat boys.

My current office is 8-10 people, open plan, great inter-team communication, and a pleasant atmosphere....

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to work in an open floor plan that was without barking dogs, nerf guns, loud meetings, and the occasional R/C helicopter. I work from home 75% now. When I'm in the office, I get next to nothing done.

Dogs at work?!

Google[1], Pinterest[2], et al let you bring dogs to work.

[1] http://www.mnn.com/family/pets/photos/10-companies-that-let-... [2] http://www.quora.com/What-San-Francisco-startups-allow-emplo...

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#157
post #22

Open office plans seem really polarizing on HN, but it surprises me how often people defend them here (or even evangelize them). For software development, it seems like something that has no upside at all (aside from saving money on office space), and tons of downsides. For the people who do prefer them (and also spend most of their time writing code), I would be curious to know the following: (1) How many years have…

For software development, it seems like something that has no upside at all (aside from saving money on office space), and tons of downsides. Commercial real estate is about $3/SF (per month) in San Francisco (Class A) and $4/SF in Manhattan. Open plan offices save about 75-100 SF per employee (more, if you're looking to be sadistic and impractical, but at this point, the productivity loss is obvious.) So the employe…

Rent is only the beginning of the costs. You need to build out the offices, which in a place like NYC means dealing with union BS and potentially carrying two rental costs if the market is tight. You're easily spending $100/sqft

You also run into tax and other accounting issues by making permanent improvements to the office vs. buying modular cubes and such. Portable equipment gets deducted over a few years... permanent improvements get depreciated over long periods of time (30+ years!)... So you get to pay taxes on profits that you didn't make.

Most companies don't have the cash flow to pay a 30% premium in a high tax state on expensive construction, so cubes are a no brainer.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#158
post #22

Open office plans seem really polarizing on HN, but it surprises me how often people defend them here (or even evangelize them). For software development, it seems like something that has no upside at all (aside from saving money on office space), and tons of downsides. For the people who do prefer them (and also spend most of their time writing code), I would be curious to know the following: (1) How many years have…

I'll share my answers as well. Durations are rounded to the nearest month and may not add up to 100% because of rounding; also, most of my jobs have some combination of situations, since I tend to move around a lot internally.

1.) I've been a developer (in some context, this also includes "startup founder", "tech lead", and about a year total of internships) for about 10.5 years.

2.) Private office for 1 year total (across 2 companies). Shared office for 1 year (2 companies). Worked from home for a total of 2.2 years (2 companies). Private cube for 1.25 years (3 companies). Shared cube for 1.5 years. Open-floorplan for 20 months (Google), and war-room (same team in a large, 5-10 person office) for 2.5 years.

3.) It's varied throughout my career. As a startup founder, I neither interrupt people nor get interrupted, since I'm working from home and am the only developer on the project. When I was a tech lead, I did literally nothing but get interrupted; incoming requests outnumbered outgoing by roughly 10:1. As an individual dev, typically I'd be interrupted about 2-3 times for every time I asked someone else a question (my preference is usually much more toward figuring out something for myself than asking questions...probably moreso than it should be).

I am mildly in favor of open-plan offices, and here's why: most of the interesting stuff is happening outside of your head. I'll grant that open-plan offices are a huge distraction, they pull you out of flow, and as a result, you will write a lot less code than you would in a private office. However, here's where I say something controversial: code is a liability, not an asset. The goal of a developer is to solve problems, and you will solve more problems if you know what the pressing problems are than if you just put your head down and code up what your boss tells you to. It really sucks to slave away at a masterpiece of technology for a year or two, and then find that nobody uses it because you weren't solving the right problem to begin with.

Here's another statistic: in those 10.5 years of experience, I've implemented 30 projects (as in, working code delivered to boss/cofounder/teammates/market). Of those, 10 were successes, where I define "success" as either "used by > 1 million people", "at least 6 internal teams use it", or "made money for employer". The successes included 2 shared offices, 3 warrooms, 2 shared cubes, 2 open floorplans, and 1 private cube. The failures included 5 private cubes, 2 private office, 2 shared office, 7 open floorplans, and 4 works from home. (Interestingly, this seems to reproduce what I've heard in the literature of "same team in an office" > "private office" > "unrelated teams in an open floorplan".)

I'm curious, do folks in favor of private offices consider a project to be successful when it is delivered according to spec to your boss? Or is it successful when it makes it to market and makes a profit for the company? If it's the former, that would explain the differing views right there: it's quite possible for private offices to help you efficiently produce the wrong product.

Re: The Open-Office Trap

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to work in an open floor plan that was without barking dogs, nerf guns, loud meetings, and the occasional R/C helicopter. I work from home 75% now. When I'm in the office, I get next to nothing done.

Dogs at work?!

It's rather obnoxious. I suppose some people are really, really, into pets. (Or more cynically, guys have a better pickup rate if they have a dog in public?) But it seems like a popular option these days to show how cool a work environment is.

At one SF shared workspace area, this guy always brought his dog in. Damn thing would go sniffing around and most people thought it was cute. I found it very annoying, especially when I had food. While I could tell him to piss off and keep his dog away, then I'd come off as the dick.

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