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We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

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Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#151

Post by chmullig »

hackuser wrote: post #74
cm2012 wrote: post #68

As someone responsible for $xxxxxx monthly spend in online advertising, it clearly works. We measure it pretty much from end to end.

> As someone responsible for $xxxxxx monthly spend in online advertising, it clearly works. We measure it pretty much from end to end. Do you know how much profit you would have earned without the advertising? How do you determine that (if you can say)? That is, without the ads, some customers would purchase more or more profitable products; some would purchase the same, and some would purchase less. But how would it…

It's very frequently measured with pretty standard experimental designs involving treatment and control groups. Track sales to each group, and you can easily figure out the return on ad spend.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#152

Post by sp332 »

superuser2 wrote: post #77
hawkharris wrote: post #12

This reminds me of a fascinating article in The New Yorker called "Twilight of the Brands." [0] The author's basic argument is that brands have historically filled an information gap. Before the Internet, when consumers didn't have tons of on-demand info about products, brands were a compass that pointed them in the right direction. If the last Sylvania TV you bought worked well, you might buy another one without hun…

One place where marketers have gotten around this quite adeptly is Windows PCs and laptops. Try searching for reviews on a laptop you find at Best Buy. There are none. The model number is 10+ random characters and completely meaningless. Comparison shopping between laptops on the basis of reviews is impossible. Consequently, they have you buying on 1) brand and 2) specs, which is right where they want you, and comple…

This is one of the (many) refreshing things about Apple. Macbook Pro is Macbook Pro until the next refresh.

That may be more true of Apple than of others, but it's not completely true. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6727/apple-is-using-sandisk-ss...

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#153

Post by judk »

rdtsc wrote: post #66
Theodores wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tobacco advertising was never about trying to persuade existing smokers to switch brands - that was the 'cover story'. In reality it was about trying to persuade young people to smoke their brand rather than some other brand. By young people Everything tobacco is controversial, however, how does this relate to online advertising for regular things? The only people who haven't heard of eBay will be people too young to…

I think they do a good job via product placement in movies and shows. Sometimes they are in "historic" or period pieces. I mean the ones create today by portraying historical periods. Sometimes there is what seems like a deliberate advertising or showing off someone lighting up. Sometimes it is cool villains so it works on a more subtle level "Oh see we are only show bad guys smoking, so we are dissuading young peopl…

Tobacco's original mass market advertising was product placement in movies to associate cigarettes with cool movie stars.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#154

Post by judk »

bushido wrote: post #124
superuser2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One place where marketers have gotten around this quite adeptly is Windows PCs and laptops. Try searching for reviews on a laptop you find at Best Buy. There are none. The model number is 10+ random characters and completely meaningless. Comparison shopping between laptops on the basis of reviews is impossible. Consequently, they have you buying on 1) brand and 2) specs, which is right where they want you, and comple…

> Try searching for reviews on a laptop you find at Best Buy. There are none. The model number is 10+ random characters and completely meaningless. This is a problem for a number of users but I think you got the reasoning a bit wrong. The real reason this is done is for the purpose of reducing price-match deals when other retailers have a discount on the same model. I for one have never faced a problem finding review…

Considering that your MBP screen issue is the same one always mentioned about Apple, and it was widely discussed online and screens got replaced under warranty, it seems to be the exception that proves the rule.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#155

Post by judk »

mdpane wrote: post #79
gerbal wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean that Apple doesn't make good products. They make pretty damn good products. But the products are only part of Apple's marketing strategy. Much of what has made Apple successful is the idea of what a Mac, an iPod, or an iPhone is. For most of the iPod's lifespan it was not the best product on the market, it was just the best marketed. In the case of macbooks, the hardware has been roughly on par with equ…

For most of the iPod's lifespan it was not the best product on the market, it was just the best marketed. I wouldn't say it was just better marketed, although that is true. It was also better designed, both in its hardware and software. An iPod in your hands felt and looked great and the scroll wheel made it intuitive to use. Anyone could easily pick it up and check out what you had in your library. Before I had one,…

The scroll wheel was a gimmick in the tradition of the Apple hockey puck mouse, that was worse than the obvious alternatives (a regular rocker is much easier to use for scrolling through long lists) but people bought because they look cute and trusted Apple's supposed design insight.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#156

Post by mikestew »

gerbal wrote: post #69
jseliger wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Samsung are two great examples of higher end companies whose products aren't appreciably superior or inferior to most of their competitors I'm not sure this is true: Samsung is not a (particularly) higher-end company, and their phones at least are lower cost than Apple. In the case of Apple, their phones were appreciably better up until two years ago or so. Their laptops have been physically better in fit a…

I didn't mean that Apple doesn't make good products. They make pretty damn good products. But the products are only part of Apple's marketing strategy. Much of what has made Apple successful is the idea of what a Mac, an iPod, or an iPhone is. For most of the iPod's lifespan it was not the best product on the market, it was just the best marketed. In the case of macbooks, the hardware has been roughly on par with equ…

> For most of the iPod's lifespan it was not the best product on the market,

I first learned the dubious value of reading off a spec sheet after I bought my first iPod. No wireless, less space than a Nomad indeed. But wireless and more space than a Nomad doesn't mean much when your UI and synchronization system is a steaming pile of shit that makes me die a little inside at the mere thought of having to use it. An iPod's specs may not have been top-of-the-line, but the experience sure was in comparison to the competition.

A more modern example is the Samsung Gear Fit that I've complained about previously. Lovely piece of hardware that stomps on everything else if one goes by the spec sheet. Unfortunately, Samsung produced a gigantic steaming turd of software (both firmware and more so on the client software side) that makes me regret that I purchased it. Sure, a FitBit doesn't even have a screen, and it's limited in its capabilities, but at least it works.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#157

Post by chupy »

kitsune_ wrote: post #139
dcnstrct wrote: post #122

As someone who leads an analytics team in the advertising industry I have to say this title and the studies they are referencing are not accurate to the entire industry at all. Advertising absolutely works when done right. The effect on brand consideration, shopping behavior, and incremental purchase value can be quantified. The most sophisticated advertisers spend a lot of money to accurately track and ensure their…

I've said this before on here, but online advertising is incredibly dumb. If you consider all the info Google and Facebook have on me, it's a really sad state of affairs. I bought a new bicycle and religiously researched this topic and consumed a ton of cycling videos. What ads do I see on YouTube? Cars. I don't have a driver's license. I once bought a NI Maschine Midi Controller. YouTube then showed me video ads for…

Those three can be explained easily:

1.If you have never visited a car company's website then it's just that Google categorized your profile wrongly and only the car companies are bidding for you when it comes to show an ad. 2. Just a company wrongly retargeting converters (people who have bought a product) with the same product that they have bought. 3. In Real Time Bidding [1] for Facebook, their information about the user is very much lacking [2] so depending on the advertiser that bids you might get very bad ads.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_bidding

[2] https://developers.facebook.com/docs/reference/ads-api/rtb/#...

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#158

Post by je42 »

dcnstrct wrote: post #122

As someone who leads an analytics team in the advertising industry I have to say this title and the studies they are referencing are not accurate to the entire industry at all. Advertising absolutely works when done right. The effect on brand consideration, shopping behavior, and incremental purchase value can be quantified. The most sophisticated advertisers spend a lot of money to accurately track and ensure their…

One of the corner stones of their article is that in order to measure the lift on the ROI of an ad the sample sizes need to be incredible large - mainly due to noise and large variances. The metrics/measure you mention are helpful but very limited. Since, IMHO the ROI is the most important metric for an advertiser.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#159

Post by coralreef »

electromagnetic wrote: post #117
davemel37 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the branding world, the general philosphy is that PR and word of mouth build brands and advertising defends brands and market share. In your theory, if advertising stopped existing the world would save a ton of money and everyone would maintain market share... but since brands are built on PR and Word of Mouth, brands will always be at risk if they can't advertise and keep you on the forefront of their mind. They…

Advertising creates a disincentive for trying unknown products. Combine this with brand loyalty from good PR, and you keep control of your market share. This is well illustrated with Ironbru in Scotland. Lucozade and Tango in the UK in general. The introduction of Fanta into the North American market too, I knew it from the UK and one of the last flavours introduced was actually Fanta Orange (the most popular one in…

Could you elaborate on how advertising disincentives a customer from trying a competing product?

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#160

Post by electromagnetic »

coralreef wrote: post #159
electromagnetic wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising creates a disincentive for trying unknown products. Combine this with brand loyalty from good PR, and you keep control of your market share. This is well illustrated with Ironbru in Scotland. Lucozade and Tango in the UK in general. The introduction of Fanta into the North American market too, I knew it from the UK and one of the last flavours introduced was actually Fanta Orange (the most popular one in…

Could you elaborate on how advertising disincentives a customer from trying a competing product?

Because advertising typically reinforces a products quality. Why would you try a no name brand when you buy Heinz who is the leading national brand.

If you have a vending machine selling Coke, Pepsi and Joe's Discount Soda, you're going to go with Coke or Pepsi.

Personally (here in Canada) I prefer the Noname brand baked beans over the Heinz brand due to the Heinz brand over using the hickory flavouring. However, this is because I grew up in the UK and the Noname brand in Canada tastes exactly the same as the Heinz Baked Beans formulated for the UK market.

I actually continued to buy Heinz Baked Beans for a couple years before I finally gave in and bought one of every brand to get one that tasted like I was used to.

If it wasn't for the advertising I would have likely bought a different brand of beans within a month, not within a couple of years. Why? Because Heinz is the best, surely the others must taste worse! Since then I always try the store brand and lesser brands

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