Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#151

Post by wycx » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 5:42 AM UTC

endoself wrote: post #6

malanj wrote: post #2

Comparing the GNP per capita of New Zealand to Australia gives some interesting results: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28gross+national+prod... The variance of the past few years (between 1:1 to 1:2) is quite high. I guess theoretically the biggest difference between the two countries is the mineral wealth of Australia?

Australia is doing unusually well recently, I think due to natural resources as you mentioned. This graph might give a better idea of what has been going on: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=uk+gdp+per+capita+%2F+...

I suggest that much of Australia's good performance will turn out to have been a bit illusory. We were extremely lucky to experience a significant terms of trade increase from ~2003 onwards, as world iron ore and coal prices increased.

Unfortunately for us, we pissed all that windfall up against a wall. I don't think we posted a current account surplus at all throughout the resources boom years. Instead, Australian banks borrowed money from overseas to lend to Australians so they could sell houses to each other for ever increasing amounts every year. The Australian economy grew because we borrowed from overseas. Existing property owners got to feel richer. As soon as we start to pay back all the debt in a significant way, our economy will shrink. Just as the dependent to worker ratio has peaked. We will have nothing to show for it. Certainly not fast internets.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#152

Post by bitserf » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 6:12 AM UTC

niels_olson wrote: post #148

antipodean wrote: post #19

Early-rising New Zealander here (it's 5am folks!). Bullet points for starters: 1. We are genuinely relaxed people, life is good, weather not too hot or too cold, food easy to get or grow, housing not horribly expensive, healthcare obtainable for all, education as close to free as we can make it and an overall low crime and corruption rate. So the majority of us go to sleep at night, overall, not worried about losing…

Hi, how expensive is it? I mean, I live in Southern California, and a 3 bedroom house 17 miles inland is upwards of $500,000. Checking real estate in NZ, houses can readily be found within blocks of the beach for $300,000 NZD (257,000 USD). Seems like a pretty good deal to me...

Outside of Auckland, it's reasonably affordable. In Auckland, the average price is quite high relative to incomes.

Most of my friends who entered the market recently were looking at prices of between $650k-$850k for something smallish in an OK area.

This was for houses which were not new builds (70s/80s) and would need a bit of work to get up to scratch (insulation, plumbing, kitchen/bathroom remodelling).

So I've just been sitting and building equity and cash reserves. Who knows when/if it will return to earth, but I don't feel comfortable leveraging up that much, so as a single buyer, I'm sitting this one out.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#153

Post by zo1 » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 7:35 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #116

zo1 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Locally raised and spent" If only. That would be a great form of funding community governance. Where local communities help themselves up, instead of practically begging for scraps from a wealthy government that really doesn't care until it gets them votes. Change has to come from within. And it won't come so long as people think like you. i.e. "Change can come when funding comes from better places" Which completely…

Property taxes are very regressive in the sense that rich people typically live with other rich people. Ghettos and shanty towns are a direct result of thinking such as yours.

Ah yes, so it's my fault that groups of individuals decided to not take care of their neighborhood, right. Sorry, no, but people need to take responsibility for their own actions. And I will in no way share blame for a second generation further ruining their kids' futures because they're too short-sighted and expect the rest of us to do it for them.

We as a society can only share blame for one generation. The next one is on the parents.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#154

Post by olalonde » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 8:00 AM UTC

dhughes wrote: post #147

JPKab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good friend of mine studied abroad in Australia, and then met and moved in with a Kiwi and then lived in New Zealand with him for a while. He has now moved to the US with her. Her brother is a good friend of mine, and is incredibly irritated with his lack of drive and motivation. I've hiked with the guy, and I don't think he's lazy at all. He just doesn't value money, and his view on life is that he's going to teac…

It's like that where I am in eastern Canada people go out smoke weed and drink every weekend if not every night! Most have menial jobs just enough to get by with government assistance. Yet everyone goes to Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Mexico every year and they make nothing. I can see how all-inclusive vacations became so popular. I work with 20-year-olds who laugh if they are sent home at work for doing something w…

Oh god, that was the most hilarious (yet accurate) description of Quebec I have ever heard... Thanks!

> I probably make four times what they do but can't see how they can afford it let alone me.

I'm sorry to break it to you but you are paying for it through taxes. Ok, that's an over-generalisation but there is some truth to it. It's very easy to get by without a salary in Quebec due to the multitude of governmental services (I recall reading that over 50% of Quebec's economy is driven by the public sector). I have a friend who is on welfare and still manages to go to Cuba every year.

Personally, I'm a fan of the attitude (not caring too much about work/money) on an individual level. For a while, I was living the 3 months freelancing / 3 months vacation lifestyle and it was great. That being said, I'm not a fan of the governmental policies which promote it at the expense of other equally admirable attitudes (e.g. entrepreneurship/hard work). It's not all fun and roses. The economy of Quebec has been suffering a lot from those "big government" policies and Quebec has now become one of the poorest province in Canada despite its abundance of natural resources and highly educated population. Of course, I implied here that there is a cause and effect between those policies and the economy but not everyone would agree with me on this. In fact, a sizeable fraction of the population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_solidaire) actually advocates for economic degrowth... Ok, I'm definitely going off topic now.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#155

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 9:01 AM UTC

ScottBurson wrote: post #75

JPKab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good friend of mine studied abroad in Australia, and then met and moved in with a Kiwi and then lived in New Zealand with him for a while. He has now moved to the US with her. Her brother is a good friend of mine, and is incredibly irritated with his lack of drive and motivation. I've hiked with the guy, and I don't think he's lazy at all. He just doesn't value money, and his view on life is that he's going to teac…

Fuck your family. Make money for your own reasons, or don't. It has to come from you or you'll never feel successful.

[deleted]

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#156

Post by oska » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 9:22 AM UTC

ekpyrotic wrote: post #14

Given its comparative geographical isolation, it makes sense for NZ to invest in it's digital economy. NZ has its own competitive advantages: (1) An educated population; (2) An English-speaking population (yes, this is an advantage. Regardless of the rise of the East, English is still the international language of business.) But, clearly, it has certain disadvantages. Geographical isolation is one of those. It is dif…

> (Actually with the rise of the China, which is geographically close to NZ, it might have a go at snapping up some of the renmimbi trade).

The geographical 'closeness' of New Zealand to China can be overstated. The distance between Auckland and Hong Kong is only slightly less than the distance between Los Angeles and Santiago. I'm not sure that many US Americans would consider Santiago geographically close. The basic fact about New Zealand is that it really is not geographically close to anywhere and this is why it was the last significant habitable chunk of land on the planet to be settled by humans (within the last 1000 years). New Zealand is actually very close to the centre of the 'water hemisphere'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_hemisphere

Nevertheless, you're right that trade with China is becoming more and more important to New Zealand's economy.

> As NZ is a comparatively small country with few concentrated geographical centres, it could roll-out super-fast broadband, 5G, etc, on the cheap.

They are now doing this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_New_Zealand#Governm...

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#157

Post by hackerboos » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 11:18 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #136

levosmetalo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Iceland benefit anything from oil? It's only Norway that has significant oil reserves, and all other have none.

Well, there's Ikea, Nokia, and... hmm, I'm not sure what economic factors are important in Denmark and Iceland. But I'll bet they're very different than those prevailing in New Zealand, whatever they are.

Being European Union members certainly helps.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#158

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 12:33 PM UTC

zo1 wrote: post #153

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property taxes are very regressive in the sense that rich people typically live with other rich people. Ghettos and shanty towns are a direct result of thinking such as yours.

Ah yes, so it's my fault that groups of individuals decided to not take care of their neighborhood, right. Sorry, no, but people need to take responsibility for their own actions. And I will in no way share blame for a second generation further ruining their kids' futures because they're too short-sighted and expect the rest of us to do it for them. We as a society can only share blame for one generation. The next on…

Wow, so its poor people fault they and their children and their children's children remain poor. That is very libercrazian of you.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#159

Post by capisce » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 12:39 PM UTC

EdwardDiego wrote: post #144

zmmmmm wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paradoxically I'm not sure this is true at all. It turns out that the tyranny of distance can make software even harder to do than tangibles. Why? Because software is intimately driven by domain and end user requirements. It's just not possible to build the right stuff unless you're intimately in contact the people who need it. If you're sitting in NZ, you simply can't appreciate what the driving needs are in an econ…

I code in NZ for a German company. We are very competitive on price compared to Germans, and very competitive on quality, compared to Indians. It's a happy middle ground.

Is the time difference not an issue?

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#160

Post by hyp0 » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 2:33 PM UTC

lexcorvus wrote: post #109

hyp0 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I went around the globe rather than through it.

He's suggesting you meant circumnavigated , not circumvented .

To explain the joke: Yes, he caught that error of mine, but I found a retrospective justification as a way to get out of it, as a joke. That's why he replied "Well done!"